Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Winter Access Forum MR

My son and I were planning a 2 day trip up MR this Thursday. Any opinions on that weather front coming? Has anyone had experience in the MR with low temperatures forecasted at minus 10 or so?

David

Two Eastern Sierra weather forecasters, Dennis Mattinson and Howard Sheckter, are calling for a major storm this weekend. A few weeks ago a party of three also climbed into a storm, and had to be rescued from the summit. They spent a few days in the stone hut.

I'll be hiking this weekend, but it wouldn't be at elevation.

Use extreme caution this weekend...

My experience in the MR with the kind of weather that is expected for this weekend involved bagging my plans and watching football and waiting for a better weekend.

I have climbed M.Whitney via the M.R in the summer and tried again about 3 weeks ago with my son but retreated due to a severe system coming in. On the way back, I felt somewhat apprehensive when approaching the ledges due to the snow that was beginning to accumulate and the possibility of slipping off them. The ledges on the south of the canyon were covered in ice. Perhaps because i was with my son, i felt more cautious than usual, and i looked everywhere on the slabs for cracks to place protection but i could not find anything appropriate. Fortunately, we made it down without incident.
A week later, as you know, an Intel engineer had an accident and died. Here is my question which I would appreciate feedback: has anyone ever proposed to set some type of protection on the Ledges such as fixed anchors or a cable.? And, what do you think of the idea. It would make the winter approaches a little less stressful. David

Seriously, the best decision is to wait until the snow has filled in the drainage.

You'll notice that the number of successful climbs drops dramatically after the first snow of the season. And, for good reason. The E-Ledges and the south side slabs ARE dangerous once they start to ice up.

The numbers will increase as we head into Spring.

There's enough snow up there now that you can walk up the drainage with snowshoes or skis. No cliff climbing required.

Agreed. I would not take the ledges now. The snow is covering all the brush and should make for an easy ascent.

I don't like the idea of placing fixed gear on the ledges to make them safe. In the end, it is a brief Class 3 section. Some of the skill involved with mountaineering is choosing the best route based on the conditions. Not all routes are "in" all the time and should not be used at the times they are unsafe.

We attempted the East Ridge of Russell in late Oct of this year and the route was no longer "in" and safe and we made the decision to turn back at 13.8k, however that doesn't mean the route should have fixed safety gear installed just so I can summit it any day of the year. It was no longer in safe condition to climb it then and I just have to wait until the right time to go back. That is the a lot of the fun and challenge of climbing peaks, knowing that you can't just walk up it any day you please.

Part of the wilderness experience is dealing with what Mother Nature deals us. I'm all for trails that eliminate the need for every party to hack a different path through the brush, but we should otherwise leave it alone. We should not bolt, let alone install cables, on third class ledges.

Cables? You mean like Half Dome? And polish the granite? And add 800 people?

Mr. Asabat: I was looking for logical and informed exchange of ideas given the fact that experienced climbers have died in winter in the ledges. I thought, as an example that Richard L's reply had both qualities. You mention Half Dome when Mt .Whitney trail itself has a long set of poles and cables in areas much wider than the E. Ledges. You mentioned 800 people! I doubt it very much that setting a fixed anchor in the ledges will provoke an avalanche of new climbers. The MR is a very strenuous climb and, I think, that most are concerned with the last 400 feet more so than the ledges. Lastly, what motivated me to open this discussion, was that a young man recently died in that spot so I thought that the subject matter was material.

I meant Richard P not Richard L

David: I also took my son up the MR this summer, so I understand the extra burden you feel when you have your child with you. No problem there. However, I also agree with the others that bolts or fixed anchors should not be placed on the MR/Ledges or any other 3rd-4th class terrain. In fact, I think they should be used very sparing on 5th class, (ideally just at belay/rap stations where natural or gear options aren't available). There would certainly be times that the ledges/MR route would not be safe, but that doesn't mean we should bolt it or use fixed gear & cables. I also believe that part of the wilderness experience is knowing how to improvise and knowing when to bail.

While I wasn't looking for protection options this summer due to the casual nature of the ledges in dry weather, I would have to think the ledges are protectable in winter with maybe just 3-4 small to mid sized cams and a big hunk of webbing or cord to sling boulders. I can imagine some of the traversing sections where you might be looking at a bit of pendulum fall if you slipped, (never much fun), but I sure would think you could protect it and you wouldn't deck. Couldn't you sling that big boulder right after the wide side-walk sized ledge before you get to the slightly sketchy part? After that it seems like there would be a lot of gear options.

Best of luck and I commend you for backing off and keeping your boy safe.

Kent

Hi Maybe some thoughts on the cables on the main trail , I always say the worst three conditions exist in the spring and fall 1. They are on the steepest slope of the area. 2. They are in the north facing section (shaded ) 3. Natural seep so the area is always wet/icy. The cables are there so "I" think thats the way to go not knowing what happens 50' above the cables .

The young man above was not on the ledges when he fell.


Last season a fixed line was placed on the last 400' for awhile and people with little or no climbing experience were using the line . We know a slip/fall in this section is fatal if the snow is used , we also know climbing the rock and using gear we have had no fatal accidents .


You need ice ax and crampons , and when would you use those things??? Follow the logic If I am told what gear to have then if I have that gear I am safe, If I am told " you are the one person that will determine if you come back for another sunrise it may have a different impression.

The best climbing day of your life comes the day your son takes the lead and leads you out of a move you got in over your ego inflated ability!



On the Northfork if you are in the bottom of the canyon the fall will be very short. Thanks Doug

I strongly oppose installing any form of cable or fixed protection on the North Fork Approach. Doing so would significantly diminish the quality of the experience and would likely result in more accidents, as fixed protection (or the promise thereof) generally attracts those with less experience.

The North Fork is a beautiful approach to the technical climbs surrounding Mt. Whitney, as well as the Mountaineer's Route. Generally, those attempting these routes have sufficient experience to negotiate the ledges safely and recognize when they are and are not passable. Furthermore, the North Fork offers a degree of solitude, especially relative to the main trail.

I second that. Sierra ethics should not be violated because someone feels unsafe to walk up the ledges passing a brief section of class III terrain. Lots of people complain about J Tree saying that more bolts need to be placed to further protect the run out lines. Yet, those who developed the routes and respect the local rules always oppose the idea and they do it for a reason. If you feel that the route is unsafe for you, then don't get on it! Likewise, NF leads to many class III and technical lines on Whitney, Russell and other newly developed lines in the area. If you follow the logic that E. Ledges are unsafe without permanent protection, why not place bolts and anchors to also protect the East Ridge, MR, East Buttress, Fishhook arete, MD, Star Trekking ect .. ? You will surely "reduce" the danger of hiking and climbing these routes and make it easier to approach them - no need to carry a rack. Frankly, it would be a waste of time to place pro on E. Ledges because I expect it to be instantly removed.

Thank you everyone for feedback. The strange fact is that I agree with you. I have done some aggressive climbing in my past, however, I felt insecure this time and I believe it was because I was with my son which makes your good feedback all that more important. Thanks.

David, I wasn't trying to be a pain, I was trying to be concise and a little sarcastic. Yes, I think if a fixed cable was put on the ledges there would be more traffic, although the current quotas would temper that somewhat. Already there are more people going up MR because of the quotas filled on the main trail. The last 400 feet they probably never reach, but they try anyway. Look at how many turn back at the cables on the main trail. And the fixed line that's been reported on the top 400 feet used by inexperienced climbers (as reported by Doug) is a bigger accident waiting to happen. I'm not a technical climber, just a scrambler. And for preventing another death( may they RIP), I cringe every time I hear that this or that should be done to prevent a death or injury, because the cheaper and easier solution for the guvmint is to simply close the route.

No worries. You make good points and I thank you for taking the time.

The Whitney Zone day permit is for either the Main Trail or the MR - so, if the quota is full on the Main Trail it is also full on the MR.