Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board down jacket

Hey guys..
I need advice for my guy...
what down jacket do you all like the best? MH SL conduit, sierra designs Zeus, North Face, etc....
any comments are appreciated. It would be for winter camping, hiking, climbing high, etc.

thanx
Annie

Very good question. There are so many out there. I've heard MH Sub Zero, RAB Neutrino, and a few others from Western Mountaineering and Montbell. Here's a thread with a lot of good info:

http://www.whitneyportalstore.com/forum/...=true#Post71213

Annie
I agree with James' choices. My fiance and I have the Western Mountaineering Meltdown and the hooded Flash jackets and we
L-O-V-E them! They are very light, extremely warm, and they pack down to nothing for backpacking.A16 carries some of their line.
Feathered Friends custom makes a nice lightweight series, but the material is not as durable as the WM and I don't know where you can try on their items.
RAB and Montbell make nice stuff too (a little less expensive), but you might have to go to Lone Pine(Elevations), Bishop (Wilson's Eastside), or Mammoth Lakes (Mammoth Mountaineering) to see and touch their products.
Good luck,
Stacy
ps James - we might make one of the Baldy hikes...hope to see you there!

Hi Annie:

Feathered Friends Volant or Frontpoint. In my opinion these are the top of the line 800 fill down, custom hand made in USA.

If you choose any other brand made in China, check it out carefully, and make sure there is no tiny feather inside. Really squeeze tightly on the down. Tiny feather will poke out much easier. It happen to me a year ago and ruin a trip. Also, before your trip take the down jacket to your neighborhood butcher's shop refrigerator, and test it out for warmth.

If you are looking for something without a hood, I vote for the Western Mountaineering Flight, although it runs a bit small in my opinion.

Ditto the Western Mountaineering Flight. For the Sierra other than winter I don't need a warm jacket except for short time in the early morning. The Flight weighs less than midweight fleece but is much warmer.

I have the Montbell EX Light Down Jacket, and love it. http://www.gearzone.com/Montbell-Ex-Light-Down-Jacket-p/165-15716.htm

It depends on what you want from a jacket. This one is no frills, as in no hood, no pockets, just a very warm, super light jacket to be used in layering on cold days, or in your sleeping bag at night to boost warmth. I already have a warm, water proof jacket with a hood, so I saved the $ by getting this one and I don't regret it.

3 Mountain dudes who I really respect swear by the Mountain Hardwear sub zero with the hoodie......Based on their suggestion that's what Santa is gettin the Yeti for Christmas.....

My suggestion is to call Feathered Friends and put the question to them. I have found them to be very helpful, knowledgeable, and most importantly honest about their products. I REALLY wanted their Frontpoint jacket for my winter adventures but was a bit too much for my budget so I eventually settled on a Mountain Hardwear Sub-Zero Parka which is IMO a great coat for the money. Don't rule out synthetic however, the Das Parka is a good choice.

I agree, great jacket

what about April? I plan on a trip through the backcountry between early April and early May - late winter, but before the big snow melt. I was looking at some warmer jackets than the WM Flight Jacket, but that may be overkill and I am already worried about too much weight on my back not being the greatest of skiiers. But when looking at 20 to 25 nights in the snow I may just want to be very warm once in a while and pay the price of that extra pound. Been looking at a Millet jacket that seems to be a little lighter than the big fluffy Everest gear from Marmot, but much warmer than the typical down "sweaters"

WM Meltdown $340 msrp
Super light (17 oz.), very warm, packs down nicely, and has an insulated hood.

Western Mountaineering Meltdown

Stacy

I have used a MH Sub Zero jacket for about two years but this last March I purchased the First Ascent Peak XV Down Jacket for Mt. Rainier and I have to say that hands down, the First Ascent jacket is better. At the summit of Rainier, my partner and I got caught in a white out with temps reaching single digits (F) and the jacket performed much better than my SubZero jacket that I once used in a February attempt on Mt. Whitney where temps were 23-26 F but no storm.

It's surprising to me that I don't hear many folks talk about the First Ascent line much. They make very good quality gear and you can usually get the stuff on sale around the holidays and after winter.

here's a link:

http://www.eddiebauer.com/catalog/product.jsp?ensembleId=37544&&categoryId=27377&categoryName=FIRST-ASCENT-MENS-OUTERWEAR&pCategoryId=27373&pCategoryName=FIRST-ASCENT-MENS&gpCategoryId=27372&gpCategoryName=FIRST-ASCENT&catPath=~~categoryId=27377~~categoryName=FIRST-ASCENT-MENS-OUTERWEAR~~pCategoryId=27373~~pCategoryName=FIRST-ASCENT-MENS~~gpCategoryId=27372~~gpCategoryName=FIRST-ASCENT&viewAll=y

Perhaps you could expand on the performance metrics by which the FA jacket excelled over the SZ? Were they the exact same configuration, as the SZ is made in both jacket and parka, with/without hood, and different shell options.

I personally used a SZ parka with water-resistant shell on Denali and never felt I needed anything warmer in temps down to -15F. Though I find this parka overkill for most trips in the lower 48 and usually opt for a Western Mountaineering Vapor jacket (which I am quite satisfied with, though I wish it had a hood). I am tempted to purchase a WM Flash XR jacket, but am a little wary of the durability of the shell material. I ran into problems a few years back with a MH Phantom jacket as I tore the fabric of several panels merely brushing against abrasive rock, and have since been a bit wary of the ultra-light shell fabrics on down jackets.

Thanks for saying this, I am trying to decide between the MH Phantom and Sub Zero for my trek to Everest Base Camp next October, and think the durability of the SZ and the detachable hood will outrank the lightweight phantom esp if the fabric won't be as durable - i can't afford to freeze 5 days into a trek into the middle of nowhere!

I have a Sub Zero SL Parka (the SL indicates it has the Conduit water-resistant shell), interestingly enough bought with the long term goal of using it on the Everest Base Camp trek as well! Unfortunately I have not had a chance to test it out in anything other than some winter visits to the east coast...hoping to give it a run this winter in the Sierra. The Sub Zero comes in both jacket and parka configurations...one of the reasons I bought the parka is that a freguent complaint about the jacket is that it is a little short in the back for some, so coverage can be compromised. I tried on the jacket and found this to be somewhat true. The Sub Zero is 650 fill down, and most high-end jackets these days have 700 or higher, although I have to believe that the Conduit shell helps in that regard. Of course, that adds to the weight as well. Another thing about the parka is it's easier to layer under than the jacket.

Hi Idysrvyr

Nice question and good suggestions so far. For me I have the best of both worlds. I use a combo of two puffy jackets when its really cold and nasty. I own a Marmot Zeus (800 down 1 lb) and a North Face hooded Red Point Optimus(Primaloft 1 lb 6oz). Last year I spent 2 nights out in the area of Albert Mtn. fire tower in western NC. One morning it was 8 degrees, the next 6 degrees. Around camp early in the morning, I wore both. Zeus next to me, Redpoint on the outside. Very warm, was soon getting rid of the Zeus. This brings up another suggestion, invest in several layers of primo base layers. Easy to use and go a long way in keeping you warm. If you are looking for a single really warm jacket check out the Marmot Greenland Baffled Jacket (800 down 1 lb 11 oz.)

Well to put it in a better perspective:

On Rainier at the summit, temps were between 5-10 degrees with below freezing winds of 20-30 mph. I was wearing a my Acrteryx Alpha SV bibs with Patagonia Capilene 3 long underwear. Up top, I was wearing only my Mountain Hardwear Long Sleeve Double Wicked Lite shirt and my First Ascent Peak XV down jacket. We were standing around for 15-20 minutes in the white out planning the safest way down because we stopped using wands at about 13,500. We had a good 900 feet to go down with 5-10 feet of visibility all around us. I was pleasantly toasty standing around getting battered by the storm that moved in. While pushing up towards the summit it was sunny and cold but we couldn't see the storm coming from a Westerly direction because the mountain was in the way.

On Mt. Whitney, I was wearing the exact same gear except I had to put my MH Monkey man fleece on underneath and my Arcteryx Alpha SV jacket on the outside of my SZ jacket (I have the SL parka version) to try and keep more heat in. When I had only the Mountain Hardwear long sleeve shirt and SZ jacket, I could feel cold spots on my chest and shoulders. The was my first time using the jacket so it was in new condition. The jacket performed good enough, but not without help from my fleece and outer shell.

I think the SZ is a great jacket but even w/o me explaining my experiences with both products, comparing the specs between them shows you that the FA jacket will work better in colder conditions. I think the FA jacket gives you more versatility on the colder end of the spectrum (i.e. anything going freezing and below.) I would not bring the FA jacket if temps were not going to mostly be 32 and below.

Maybe there was a manufacturing anomaly with my MH Subzero parka?? But I think if you are able to hold both the MH SubZero Parka and First Ascent Peak XV jacket together before buying one of them, I would bet most would choose the First Ascent jacket.

Is it possible your use of a shell jacket over the top of the SZ compromised the loft (and hence warmth) of the jacket in those conditions? I have no reason to doubt the performance of the FA jacket you used on Rainier, but have never had such a sub-par performance from my SZ in the relatively mild conditions you experienced on Whitney. I assume your SZ jacket has the standard shell material, not the Conduit SL?

This could also have been a fit issue...if you had more space between your body and the MH vs. the other jacket, would be harder to keep warm vs. having it snug up on your body. The puffier jackets are probably better in giving you the Michelin man effect..I sized my parka with the understanding that I would have one medium weight fleece layer underneath, rather than wearing it as a stand-alone jacket with just a t-shirt. I also am built a little larger in the chest area than most of the individuals my size that I have seen hiking in the mountains, so I don't have lots of empty space there.