Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board 3 Swept over waterfall in Yosemite

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/aug/01/woman-dies-at-yosemite-park-on-half-dome-descent/

Yosemite can't get a break. Another death, this time on Half Dome.

The families of the 3 that went over the waterfall have now hired a 'consultant'* to look into the safety measures of the park.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/20...ess-safety.html

It just makes me shake my head. I truly feel for the families of the 3 that died, but what ever happened to personal responsibility, especially when disregarding barriers and signs.

*the 'consultant' is someone who runs a center for autistic children. I'm not quite sure what authority that gives her over safety measures/regulations for the general public at a National Park.

Clearly there needs to be a 10 foot high chain link fence with barbed wire on top extending the entire distance on both sides of the Merced River inside the park.

The family is in grief, and in this sort of situation is often somewhat irrational. That is a natural reaction. They turn to people they know and trust. Their emotions and logic tell them that their family members were good people, that they would not have done something irrational and suicidal. There must be more to the story. They want opinions from experts, not from the gov't. Very few of us know seasoned accident investigators, particularly who would have experience with something like this.
Undoubtedly one of them knew this "consultant", or a trusted friend knew her.

What is unfortunate is that this unexperienced person, with what appears to be no training, experience, or knowledge of accident investigation, particularly in a wilderness setting, will likely set off a lawsuit.

Her comments, BEFORE the release of the "study", shows a remarkable lack of professionalism.

Stay the heck in the city. I am tired of it.

"I'm not content with that skimpy little rail," Kiryakous said. While at the park, she watched two women washing their hands on the other side of the railing. She plans to release her report Friday.

The rail is not the problem. Being stupid is.

What does she know about water safety? Can she swim class 5 rapids? Climb out of the ocean in large surf over rocks with a tank on her back? Or at least be an ocean lifeguard.

I am a water rescue expert and you can not stop stupid people from being stupid. Like I said earlier you wouldn’t catch me within a quarter mile of the falls touching the water at this flow.

There are signs in English and pictures, maybe the rails should be taken down. Let common sense prevail.

There are too many rails, cables, and stone walls in the park now. I do not go there to hike a few miles to see a fence in front of the falls. I am trying to get away from the fences, and signs.

I feel sorry for the families involved, but I have done too many rescues because people were stupid. Sorry for venting.

Again, everybody feels horrible about this situation for the lives ended in such a horrific way and their families.

I am somewhat jaded by my occupation, but I suspect the consultant is an attorney, perhapes of the personal injury persuasion. The NPS has a deep pocket. I hope the "consultant" thing goes away.

roger dodger

Well, wait a second. You can't, on one hand, tell someone who is not involved, not to apologize for venting, and then go off on a family member who just lost someone, who is essentially doing exactly that, by having someone take a look. These families, they haven't been up there. They don't do this stuff. They don't know. You want Joe to sing from the rooftops, but the families to slink under the nearest convenient rocks? THEY weren't stupid. THEY didn't do anything dumb. They have only committed the sin of being related to those that were. Asking questions is not a crime.

Now I'll throw some additional gas on the fire. I cannot help but notice the names of the hikers, the family members, and the consultant. I may be totally off base, but I would guess that they may have roots in cultures in which asking questions IS a crime, and the government DOES throw people out of planes, off roofs, and over waterfalls, with nice cover stories. In this country, asking questions of official government stories is perfectly ok, and having the freedom to have an independent person of your choice take a look is perfectly fine with me.

In THOSE cultures, "friends" of the gov't respond by attacking such families, and I'm not sure I quite see the difference. I prefer freedom of choice. What is there to hide?

Werent these mega-religious peeps?I thought Jesus was their 'consultant'.I thought God took them away to a better place or that God needed them more in Heaven than down here.Oh brother,I feel really bad for these people but their kin seem to be no less bright than them.

If there is a God/Jesus,why does He give us defective dna?

Gosh, I read merely that they were part of a church outing. Is this your attitude towards anyone of faith to which anything awful happens? Or just all people of faith (of which I am not, but which I respect)? Isn't there some other way in which we can demean them?

Burchey, since we're talking about something that you obviously have no experience with, a grieving family who has lost their beloved member in an incomprehensible accident, I will tell you as a person who has counseled (at least) hundreds of families of loss: there is a lot of irrationality. There is a lot of grasping of straws (did you note the news reports quoting some of them holding out hope, because no bodies had been found? How ridiculous is that?) You want to apply rational measures of thought and behavior, and I am calling that a naive way of viewing the grief and reactions of such a family, particularly when there is not the closure of a funeral.

Kick them if you want to, but that only speaks of you, not of them.

As for not understanding what people experience in other cultures, under lesser forms of freedom, where governments routinely cover up deaths with BS stories, just because you don't know about other things outside the US of A, doesn't mean that people who live here, even citizens and their families, have not been subject to such abuses, and recent immigrants have recent memories of such things.

"Gosh, I read merely that they were part of a church outing. Is this your attitude towards anyone of faith to which anything awful happens? Or just all people of faith (of which I am not, but which I respect)? Isn't there some other way in which we can demean them?"

No,they are part of an orthodox christian sect.
I have to bear their demeaning views on gays and non-beleivers/ infidels often enough.Now they want to impair our access to our park system due to their stupidity.Sorry,i just find most people who fervently believe in fairy tales and live their lives accordingly should leave it in their home and not impose it on all of us.Doesnt matter if its osama or the Norway nut.They both are religious zealots deluded by their religiosity to bring nothing good to 'other' people.

wow



which orthodox christian sect did they belong to? Have you seen quotes from the deceased that indicate that they personal held demeaning anti-gay, anti non-believer, anti-infidel views? You know that people are members of churches and religious without believing everything that is espoused by that particular organization, right?

The deceased are not taking issue with the safety precautions. They are dead. It is the grieving families who are acting out. When a loved one dies, families will naturally look for someone to blame. Their loved ones are dead and they shouldn't be. What do you want them to do? come out and say "sorry, my kid was a fool and it is his/her fault that he/she is dead". C'mon, let grieving people be in denial for a little bit. The problem isn't with them, it's with government bureaucrats who are busy protecting us from any possible risk. As long as they don't react to the grieving families everything is just fine.

y'all are pretty cold.

Always glad to find someone who trusts the gov't, and who knows that the "lamestream media" is not that, but a trusted friend that is always fair and balanced, and correct in their reporting. But then I read Forbes:

http://blogs.forbes.com/erikkain/2011/07/29/fullerton-police-brutally-beat-homeless-man-to-death/

And I remember: Trust in Allah, but tie up your camel......

Hi Think we have vented enough yet. The family and friends are still living and we need to show respect. Thanks Doug

Hi all...newbie here (first post). I hate the fact that this is my first post. But, I might have to agree that maturity has got to be the reason.

I was within minute from the top of Vernal when these three people went over. The sound and sight alone was telling me not to get near the water, and that I would DIE if I go in. Of course, I'm 37 years old now, but I've been know to do some stupid things when I was younger, but I still may not have gone in.

Let's all hope no more people dies from getting into fast moving waters.

Heard on the radio news today one of the male victims body was located and recovered today in the river below the falls.

KTLA reported the same thing

Globetreker program had its host jumping into the same pool. It certainly gives the impression this is a safe activity. Unfortunately, it is not.

Do we really need watch towers with machine guns to enforce safety?

Yes, you are right.
They are Americans and it's American litigation culture.