Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Does Gas Have An Expiration?

May sound like a stupid question, but I'm trying to find a canister that will burn with my new stove and I'm finding that they don't seem to want to work. I don't overnight much, so all of these canisters are multiple years old...

Is it the gas blend that's gone bad, or should I assume I've got some type of problem with the stove?

I don't do many overnighters anymore either. I have Coleman fuel (white gas) that's many years old, and it has always worked fine in my MSR stove. I use a wire brush and compressed air to clean the stove after each use. I also have a Snow Peak stove that uses compressed gas canisters. I haven't had any trouble with it either.

Thanks for the comments Bob... figures... I have the worst luck with stoves. I bought this one the replace another that only lasted for two or three trips before it started failing on me. I've taken it apart to clean it, but that didn't do anything to make it burn properly.

I do have a couple of white gas stoves that have been pretty reliable over a LOT of years. (Just seem to have to blow out the jet every once in a while.) I may have to track them down. I just like the convenience of a canister, especially since I like to cook in the tent.

LOL! I am SOOO “old school” with some of my gear. I still use my Sierra zip stove; I love it and I NEVER have any trouble with it. I don’t have to carry fuel, other than when I’m going to be camping above the timberline… and then I just carry a small zip-lock bag of twigs and chunks of wood – that’s enough to cook dinner and breakfast. The only drawback is that my pot turns sooty-black, but I just deal with it. I do have the titanium model, so I’m not totally caveman-style. If I did winter camping I know I’d have to use my gas stove, but for summer sierra backpacking I like my zip stove.

The thoughts running thru my head:

- just call it quits and head to LA to visit family...
- just see how far I can make it up on Sunday when the weather is supposed to be good again...
- carry a Subway sandwich up for dinner an some donuts for breakfast. I can use a 5-hour Energy to give the boost I'd get from hot coffee...

None of these require me to figure out a stove!

- bivy or tent?
- the new Igloo building tool?

I could head up earlier than the late-afternoon start I'm planning and spend time building an Igloo up at Trail Camp. The benefit would be that I don't think I'd have to worry about the white gas stove inside.

Speaking Old School: I have an old Svea (sp?) sitting somewhere in storage. I bet that thing would still burn perfectly...

Richard:

You didn't say which gas stove you're using, so I can just give you my experience with my MSR "Pocket Rocket" canister stove. It's fine for short (<4 days) trips in the summertime but not so good if the weather will be near/below freezing. The MSR canisters are a mix of propane (C3H8) and butane (C4H10). The problem stems from the fact that butane has too low a vapor pressure and doesn't vaporize very well below freezing. As a result, you burn off all the propane (which does work below freezing) and are left with a half-full canister that is mostly butane. That doesn't generate enough vapor to work worth beans in the cold.

I also have my antique (1970s-vintage) Svea 123 (even before the 123R "self cleaning" version). Works like a champ on white gas (Coleman fuel). I have a gallon can of Coleman fuel that I have been using for probably ten years and it still seems to do fine as long as I clean the stove nozzle regularly. (I lost the original cleaning wands but, working for a surgical instrument shop, I just asked around for a short length of .006" diameter stainless wire...works great.) The only trouble is that I can't take the Svea with me if I have to fly somewhere, which is often the case, being trapped out here in the flatlands near St. Louis, MO.

Thanks Alan.

This is the Primus version of the JetBoil. I've tried it with both Coleman and Primus canisters. They both ignite, but it would probably be 30 minutes 'til the (low flame) water would boil.

I've heard that gasoline and white gas can oxidize. But canister fuel? I've never run into that problem. I've used fuel that was 7-10 years old and it worked just fine.

I'll put my money on it being a stove problem. Try a brand new canister and see.



That's an urban myth.

Hi First I just got done lighting and testing a three burner Coleman that maybe 50 years old. Not the brass model Doug Jr has but a early model of the table top design.

Now onto the world of stoves , Several times a year people have a certain stove and it will not light new or old cans. We find that the valve device in the can or the stove is a different lenght not allowing the gas to exit the can. Most times this is a EU model or multi fuel system. Each year more cans are phased out and the problem is serious , Gaz puncture type are very hard to find , Hank Roberts another very good stove gone. We try to keep the old ski wax cans around because they have slippoed through the system and we can get them. Another can thats hard to find is the EFI brand and I think that stove system is a different valve, not sure.

Several cans look the same that use the clip method that holds the can to the stove ONE IS THREADED the other is NOT!!! So mixing this system leads to fuel spraying out and we have had several people say the stoves caught fire.

Those great white gas bombs are fine about 1000' away from the pets and kids , once the "O" ring IS NICKED OR OLD/COLD anything can happen. The welded joints can and will leak. So I say never take the stove into the tent and if you do put it in the back so you don't need to climb into the fire to get out!

Now you know those new fancy alloy water bottles that look like they could be used for a fuel bottle ? Don't try it, One fuel Bottle uses a flat seal washer another eses a "O" RING SEAL THEY WILL LEAK UNDER PRESSURE IF you mix the systems.

We see most of the gear at the store that fails , notice we don't sale a lot of the Buzz Brands of the year? By August as people roll off the trail and try to get parts or another... and the story of .... we know that product is gone into the discount market. Thanks Doug

The solar oven in a whiteout might not work that well either!

Forgot! carry the cans inside your jacket and clasp your hands around the can when you light the stove.

ALWAYS WITH ANY STOVE IT'S NOT IF IT BLOWS IT'S WHEN

Richard,

I use a Jetboil and have problems getting it to light when the temps drop into the low 30's. Carrying the fuel canister in a pants pocket didn't help much.

I've been told you can improve the fuel canister's cold weather performance by carrying a small hand warmer. Warm up the hand warmer and set the canister on top. That should provide enough warmth for vaporizing the fuel.

Good luck on your next summit attempt.

Yeah, I've run into that same problem in the Sierra... which reminds me of all the times I've used canisters up at 6-7000m in the Himalaya without any problems. Couldn't ever figure that one out and never bothered to ask...

So, why can you burn canister gas at 8000m in the Himalaya, when it's way sub-zero and you can't in the Sierra? Does it have something to do with the low pressure at high altitude allowing the gas to come out of the can more efficiently?

BTW: looking at the webcam this morning, I've decided I'm just going to see if I can do another day-climb of the mountain tomorrow. Rather sleep comfortably in my own bed than deal with all the overnight gear and finiky (sp?) stoves.

Been reading this board for a while. Gas doesn't expire. Plenty of it around.

Richard, I suggest you shoot your question to Hikin Jim on the SGWA BB. I think he knows as much about camping stoves as anyone. They're an obsession with him. Here's a link: http://members.boardhost.com/sgva/msg/1334359248.html.

Take a look at Hikin Jim's blog:

http://www.adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/

Dale B. Dalrymple

Hey! I'm not obsessed with anything... Whoa! Did someone say stoves?!?

Unless canisters are really rusty or otherwise physically damaged, gas is good pretty much for ever.

Have you tried the stove at home or just out on the mountain in cold weather? Try it at home. If you still get really weak gas flow, it's probably the pin in your stove just isn't depressing the valve far enough for you to get good gas flow. You could try screwing the stove down a little tighter. You don't want to overtighten, but you do want it to be tight enough to get good gas flow.

QUESTION: Is your stove new? If it is, you might exchange it if tightening it up doesn't help. If the stove is not new, has it always been like this?

HJ

New stove. Hasn't been out of the kitchen. Tried multiple canisters. One burned OK.

One was Coleman. Two were Primus.

I think I'm going to try and get an RMA for this thing.

You're using canister brands that are the lowest grade on the market. Lots of butane in them. If they weren't brand new, they probably boiled off some or all the more volatile gases and now won't really generate pressure to burn well. Try an MSR, SnowPeak or Jetbiol canister, which contain a very different mix of gas, including isobutane, a gas that will evaporate at much lower temperatures and create more pressure.

lots of good info here
http://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2012/03/canisters-cold-and-altitude-in-nutshell.html

For the chemically-inclined, check out the Wikipedia articles on isobutane versus n-butane. N-butane, or just butane, is a four-carbon straight chain where isobutane has a central carbon with three methyl (CH3) groups and one hydrogen attached. Same chemical makeup (C4H10) but different physical properties.

N-butane boils right at freezing, so in cold weather, would not vaporize and give you enough pressure to run a stove well. Isobutane, on the other hand, boils at about +12F, so will work at lower temperatures than n-butane.

Propane, which has only 3 carbon atoms, boils at even lower temperatures, below -40F, so it would work even in the winter. Hence the comments from several of us about the butane/propane mixed canisters losing pressure rapidly even though they're still half full...the propane has gassed off leaving only the butane and if it's below freezing, it pretty much remains a liquid.

Chemistry lesson over for the day...back to your regularly-scheduled discussion...

Yeah, no way. Unless it's really cold in your kitchen, you've got a bad stove. Return the thing.

HJ

Richard - Sorry to hear about your problem. That Primus EtaExpress Stove 'looks' reliable.

My 2 cents is its either dirt in the screw on threads preventing
you from fully screwing it on, or a bit food from your kitchen table entered the valve pin that pokes
into the canister.


You've probably already taken the thing apart and blown thru all the bits to see it you can clear blockage. A tiny wire might be
used to poke around to see if there is blockage in the valve?

Recently I had problems with my white gas Whisperlite on a cold morning. The stove had worked normally the previous evening
and I'd left it connected to the pump/fuel bottle overnight
sitting on the snow in the tent vestibule. It fired up but would not stay pressurized. I had to keep pumping it every minute or it would go out (nearly full bottle of fuel) 20 pumps and it would be going full throttle as normal but then it slowly
weakened and would go out in under a minute if not pumped again.

Disconnected the stove from the pump, then reassembled and it
suddenly worked as normal.