Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Trip Report & Comment

Had a wonderful day hike on Saturday to the summit. The weather was as good as I have ever seen it. Amazing that this early in the summer there is so little snow up high. Only a few patches on the upper trail if that and the cables are easily passable. I was however extremely disappointed in the amount of trash and WAG bags I saw littered along the trail. Hope this is just a rare exception. Sad to think that others believe someone else should be responsible for their trash. It was an incredible day but all I keep thinking about is all the garbage along the way.
Hope next time is better or maybe I will bring some gloves and a garbage bag along.

It's not... I counted six from the summit (!!!) Down to above The Cables... Karin's opinion was that my count was LOW!

We're going to have to bite the bullet and clean up after the pigs if we want the mountain to look pristine. The problem is not going to go away...

Saw the same at the little pond just below Iceberg Lake on Friday. There were food packages floating in the water and also a wag bag, I don't mind picking up the occasional package or piece of paper that has been accidentally dropped, but, wag bags that have been deliberately left is quite another issue.
Maybe we should have a day when a team goes up both trails to clean up.

Phil

Congrats on your successful summit and having fine weather! I can totally relate to your disgust at the trash situation on the trail. I've seen trash on plenty of trails on my mountain adventures both here in SoCal and up high in the Sierras. Here's my take on the issue and possible solution, and I'll start with an analogy in my own personal life. I have four girls ranging in age from 4 to 15 who left to their own devices would leave our home and yards a mess with my wife and I grumbling and frustrated - if we choose to do nothing and pick up after them. However, we try to take the time to patiently educate and teach them how to not only pick up after themselves but to be mindful not to makes messes and leave their toys and trash wherever their journeys take them. They make the messes not because they are stupid and lazy, far from it, they do it because they are not aware of the importance to respect and take care of their home they have been blessed with. I see little difference between how my kids act and the people who leave garbage and wag bags on the trail. Most, I firmly believe, don't comprehend the importance of respecting our trails and mountains. Patient and persistent education of "leave no trace" policy should be the focus of our energies. This forum is a great place to start an exchange of ideas and education. Patient education on the trail is also important. That's how the rangers I've encountered do it and I believe it is our responsibility to follow their lead. I've had many conversations with fellow hikers on the trail and in addition to the usual "how's your day going?" and "how's the conditions up ahead?" I try to gently comment on trash and wag bags found by me or others on the trail and how that's really terrible and wish out loud how terrible it is to see our beautiful surroundings messed up by trash. Most agree wholeheartedly with me (albeit some, I feel reluctantly). Most importantly, I've tried to put the idea in their heads and got them thinking. Hopefully my words will evoke a change in their thinking and perhaps over time have a change in attitude and approach to their time spent on the trail. Cleanup hikes and carrying out trash is very important but patient and persistent education will be the key in the long run, IMHO.

Maybe each WAG bag needs an identifier that is linked to the permit holder - a healthy fine would be imposed for an abandoned bag... cannot be done for the pick-your-own bag from the tote at Crabtree, but it would be a start...

...an RFID chip in each so the Rangers could scan it without touching it...

Crazy Jack did some real subtle preaching in his presentation. I believe KW and Dr. Murray do the same during Parts 1 and 2.

My opinion, after seeing what little good decades of preaching by NGOs... never mind...

We can stir it up by saying that the two bathrooms should not have been removed...

Yep - here we go again. The age old problem of wag bags and their amazing journeys. I would agree with the possibility of re-instating the newer high-tech porta pottys high up the trail, but with the current federal budget, or actually the lack thereof (and that's another whole topic indeed), that's not going to happen. I also agree on the idea of deposits (money) when you get your permit and bag, scan a bar code with name, address, and credit card info, and scanned when you return, picking up your green deposit and leaving your brown deposit. If the bag doesn't show up in the permit time frame, voila!, you get billed $14,494, and federal budget problem solved! Sounds too simple, but it might work, because as we all know, our human nature is laziness, apathy, and "it doesn't apply to me" attitude. Thanks for reading.

Well you have to catch them to fine them. How about a refundable deposit like cans and bottles. Make it high enough that a person would want to get their money back $25-$50. If unused the refund would be easy enough to get back. Just how to refund on a used wag bag might take some time to figure out unless there was a person to check them in at the disposal cans. A chip or barcode reader might be installed to read and verify a refund if they were put on or in the wag bags. Get the money up front that would get their attention. Just a thought.

My low-tech idea has been...
A voucher that provides an exemption to the permit requirement for each WAG you bring down... Not much incentive for anyone who isn't a regular on the mountain... Also doesn't solve the laziness/forgetfulness/whatever that caused the WAG to be left on the mountain in the first place.

stamp each wag bag with the permit number.
if the bags are found a charge is sent to the permit holder.

I agree, fine if a bag is found along the trail. Somehow ID the bag. People can't always return unused bags. Some people even like to keep the unused bags to use on other mountains where the wag bags are, shall we say, less accommodating.

This may, however, create other issues, like more poop out of the bags....

Shame that a few "entitled folks" have to spoil things for others.

I see this whole mess as being an extension of what is wrong with us in the first place. It has become a "me" society and if I don't care about "them" what is the big deal since there are no consquences. I see this attitude everyday as I teach school. Maybe a bunch of really ugly, graphic pictures posted where the permits are picked up. Might get some people to notice what is going on up there.

its a **shitty** situation

snicker....

Require each person to swallow an Imodium when they pick up their permit...

I will admit to hiking past two WAG bags in April and not picking them up. So I'm part of the problem.

So, if I walked by 4 of them last week on a training hike (three so cutely arranged around a tree at Outpost Camp and one higher on the switchers below Mirror Lake), am I a *bigger* problem, Jim?

C'mon, now.

So Jim...

You're signing up to haul out used wag bags?

me - unless I birth you, I'm not touching your poo.

Well my idea might not solve the problem but at least the Rangers would be money ahead for the lazy a$$ that aren't willing to handle them properly. Like I said if they aren't used then no problem, turn them in for a refund or keep them for later, it's your money. And hey if you brought 4 bags in there's $100-$200 refund you could collect. But there should be some sort of ID on all the wag bags.

Like Richard said, place a bounty on wag bags. WANTED: WAG BAGS DEAD OR ALIVE!

Yes I think that identifying each bag with the permit number may be a solution, and a huge deposit would provide an incentive to return them.
I would be a new income source for some to haul others out or pick up those left behind.
A couple of issues that need to be overcome;
1) As long as REI and others sell wag bags , it would be easy to leave the unmarked bag behind , and return the marked one for its deposit.
2) How do you mark it, hopefully at the bottom so if you try and tear it off you now have a hole.

Maybe they could use that ink that glows under a black light, to identify the bags.

Also , think about this, just like those guys that pick up hookers , they publish their picture in the paper, well have a board of those caught for leaving the bag, put it on line, a little public exposure may persuade some to remember to carry their own crap.

I think getting some one to do the return deposit deal could be done by a camp host or the like, let them stay for free, but with people coming down at all hours this may be a problem.

I kind of lean towards a wag bag chain gang, put them in bright orange jump suits or shirts that say "I left my WAG BAG on Whitney" while they are looking for others or doing clean up of trash in the park.

I don't have the answer, and wont be able to solve this problem, but really believe that as a group we can find a solution.