Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Advice: Tent vs. Bivy?

I would like to know people's experience and suggestions about tent vs. bivy.

I have gotten my pack weight down to 40 lbs (w/food and water) for 7-day outings without really sacrificing comfort for the sake of an ounce here and another there. Now I am wondering about swapping my tent for a bivy.

My motivation is partly weight. As I get older the ounces seem to weigh more. Partly it is a question of ease and convenience of camping. Twice I have been in places where there was minimal space for a tent, if that. A bivy would have fit well. Another time I was in a rainstorm where there was no flat area as far as I could see. I improvised a bivy from my mylar emergency sheet, tent footprint, tent floor, and tent fly and that got me through the night.

Here's how I see it: I have been using a Big Agnes UL-1 tent, about 3-1/2 lbs including fly, stakes, poles, footprint, and stuff sacks. It's easy to set up, waterproof, stable in wind, and roomy. If I'm going to stick with a tent I have no reason to trade it for another tent. With the tent I use a duck down sleeping bag and sleeping pad. I usually wear Smartwool tops and bottoms in the bag if the temps are going below mid 40s. I carry a Marmot 700-fill down jacket (no hood), a Mammut Tatoosh rain jacket, and REI element rain pants.

I recently bought on sale (but have not taken the tags off) an OR Floodlight "fully waterproof" 800 fill down jacket, with hood. (Question: is it really waterproof? Does anyone have any experience with this item?) If I switch to a bivy, I would wear this down jacket and fleece pants for sleeping instead of a sleeping bag. So the (1) bivy, (2) OR down jacket, and (3) fleece pants would replace the (1) tent, (2) sleeping bag, (3) Marmot down jacket, and (4) Tatoosh rain jacket. Everything else would stay the same but it seems like the weight savings would be big.

I am interested in any thoughts or suggestions about this. If you have used and like bivys, is there a particular one you would recommend? How does a bivy compare to a tent for conserving body warmth? And, in particular, what is it like getting out of a bivy in the middle of the night to pee? At my age this is not a theoretical question.

Hi Burt,
some thoughts on bivy.. I've used the Uber Bivy, like the one on the ceiling of the store. I mostly hike alone, its easy to set up, not bad getting in and out of at night... I'm 67. used it for 4 days on part of the high sierra trail in Oct. Temps in the low 30's. Also around Meysan lake in 35 degree weather with snow on the ground. Just used the Tyvek sheet that came with it, a pad and my 20degree bag. pleanty warm. The downside, and not sure a tent would be better, is in a strong wind there is a lot of shaking as nothing secures any part of it to the ground. I've thought about putting a ring on the top of the bows area to be able to tie off. I usually find some large rocks to put on the bottom corners. At least 2.5 pounds lighter than any tent i've seen, but haven't done much research as i like uber bivy. Haven't been in the rain, but did test it with a hose and it doesn't leak... Maybe Doug would let you sleep on the ceiling to try the one in the store out.....

Bivys can be plenty warm (depending on material and if you use a down bag and jacket, pad, etc.). The upside is you sleep under the stars. The downside is you are in a cocoon. Hard to get in and out. If you're camping in winter I wouldn't go without a sleeping bag regardless if you use a bivy or tent.

Many tents are sub two pounds. Try a trekking pole tent, like the Lightheart Solo. But even a Big Agnes Fly Creek UL1, with poles and stakes, should not tip the scales at more than 2 lbs 3 oz. A Fly Creek was my own go-to tent for many years, and my heaviest pack weight is about 34 lbs including 10 days food and 1 liter water. Usually I am sub 30.

I have a nice OR helium bivy, used it my last trip up Whitney. Personally, I would not choose a bivy for a significant thruhike (multi day) or where extended bad weather is likely. Or if I did, I would also bring a tarp, which would close to negate the ounce savings. A good bivy is around 16 oz, and a tarp can double that, and now you might as well go with a tent from an ounces perspective. I do stake my bivy down, which reduces the flapping. I like it for fast and light peak climbs where the forecast is reasonable.

Personally, unless it is very warm, I would not do without a sleeping bag.

If you want to save weight, consider posting your gear list. The ounce counters among us may be able to suggest some savings.

Thanks for the good reply. You have been a source of valuable info since l first started planning to get back to packing 2 years ago.

My Big Agnes tent was rated at just above 2 lbs. But yesterday when l put the 3 separate stuff sacks on a scale the total was a hair over 3#. Part of the difference was that l am weighing the footprint which isn't included in the tent specs. I also carry a few extra stakes for different substrates. Besides that l can only think the factory specs weren't accurate. It's a discontinued model (Fishook) so l can't check the original specs.

I have considered a trek pole tent and will take another look. So far the answers to my post are turning me away from the idea of a bivy as my usual shelter and making my down parka and fleece pants double for a sleeping bag.

I can't imagine getting my load down to 35# but maybe 38#.

See you in the mountains. -Burt

Hi Burt,

On my solo outings in the Sierras in the Summer I often take the Big Agnes Fly Creek UL 2 tent. It weighs 3 lbs (including footprint, stakes, rain fly, etc). If the weather is not great, it allows me to set up camp with all my gear inside the tent. Admittedly, operating in tight quarters requires much patience and organization.

Using the tent allows me to use a lighter sleeping bag, the Marmot Atom. The Atom weighs 1 lb. It is down and has a 40 F rating. Of course, inside the tent the bag is much warmer since the tent blocks the wind and captures some of my body heat. How much does your sleeping bag weigh?

So this total sleeping system is 4 lbs.

Perhaps consider tossing your sleeping pad, as well as the Smartwool tops and bottoms. If it is chilly, I sleep in my light fleece jacket, sweater, and hiking pants and wear a balaclava.

The UL2 rain fly makes for a great tarp. Consider tossing the mylar emergency sheet. (Sometimes I take the rain fly on day hikes.)

If your hiking pants are the quick drying type (REI Sahara, for example), consider tossing the rain paints.

How much does your pack weigh empty? I am still sometimes using the GoLite Gust which is 1 lb empty. I would rather be carrying something I can eat, than unnecessary buckles, straps, zippers,...

If I am doing something like the High Sierra Trail (80 miles), in addition to the pack on my back, I often start out carrying in one hand a small plastic shopping bag with perhaps the first two days of food. In the other hand I might carry a fishing pole. Then several of my dinners do not need to be carried, as (hopefully) they are waiting for me in the creeks and lakes which lay ahead up the trail.

Burt, these are just some thoughts. It sounds like you are going to have a great
Summer!

Jim

PS- By the way, I completely understand and also am experiencing, "As I get older the ounces seem to weigh more." Similarly, I would guess that as we age into the Medicare sector, likely we have less reserve to tolerate hypothermia. It seems that while selecting a sleeping system this needs to be seriously considered while simultaneously attempting to lighten the pack. Even on long day hikes, I try to have some plan/gear, in case it turns into an unintended overnighter in poor conditions. Also there are many natural shelters already out there in the Sierras, we just need to develop some imagination and an eye for spotting them.

Jim, thank you for the time and thought you put into your reply. Now, I'm going to do something I hate - I'm going to say "yes, but" to many of your suggestions.

Yes, your ideas about sleeping warm are good, but...I sleep very cold. I mean Very Cold. My present sleeping bag is rated at 6F and I have been cold in it although I've never been out when it's gotten below 25 at night. One thing that helps is an idea that was posted on this board, I think by Doug, about putting a Mylar survival sheet between the tent floor and sleeping pad, reflective side towards the pad. Last year, at Upper Lamarck Lake, when it was cold enough that the creek between the upper and lower lakes had a solid skin of ice where it was slow moving, that trick helped keep me warm.

Because of that, and because the Mylar sheet was an important part of the bivy I improvised once when it was raining and there was absolutely no place to pitch a tent, I will continue to carry the 2-1/4 ounce Mylar.

I guess my idea of ditching the tent for a bivy, and the sleeping bag for a parka and pants that would double for my camp wear, was crazy from the start. I was hoping that the small interior of a bivy compared to a tent would be enough more efficient in holding heat that I could get away with it.

Packs: I had 3 lumbar disks collapse many years ago. That left me with a weak and weird spine. That was why for decades I thought I couldn't backpack anymore. My son, who operates a Cross Fit training studio, suggested some exercises that made it possible for me to carry a multi-day pack for the first time in decades. In the 2 years since I started backpacking again I have carried and suffered with Osprey, Gregory, and Mtn. Hardware packs. I tried on a Granite Gear pack but I need more structure than that.

I now own two 65-75 L packs - a Lowe's Alpine which is good and a Deuter which is great. The Lowe's can't be adjusted for torso length and it is just a little too long for me so I have to keep readjusting the straps on the trail which is a nuisance. The Deuter is very adjustable and once I got it set right it was about perfect, it fits like an old sweater. It's rated as light, but far from ultralight, but I have to carry it for comfort. (If anyone is interested in the Lowe's Alpine Cholatse II I would be glad to sell it for $50. It has a few places where I've repaired the mesh with tape. It's only been out on 2 trips.)

There is 1 heavy piece of gear that I always carry and have never used - my PLB at 6 ounces. Since I almost always hike solo and usually include at least one off-trail segment on my trips I will continue to lug it, and hope to never use it.

Thanks again for the time and thought you put into your response.
Burt

Hello Burt:

I have used Black Diamond Bivy. Great weight saving. Two area of concern:

1) In a rain storm the bivy does not allow you to change or put on your clothing easily. You got to get out, and may get a bit wet.

2) At night I have alway hear these tiny rodents running around my bivy tent. It is a bit unnerving that the bivy is not a tight closure. What if they bite my ear, nose? I can handle the pain, but not the disease that they may carry.

Today, I use North Face Asylum tent (solo type), and only used bivy for the higher peak with snow where there is no rain (snow OK), and no rodents.