Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board what happens when you get caught without the right permit on the whitney trail?

there are no "exit" permits available for the whitney trail on the dates i was going. going in from shepards pass traihead and wanted to exit trail crest down to the portal. no permits for exiting that way. what happens if i get caught going down to whitney portal when my permit says i'm exiting back at the shepards pass traihead??

i am going to try and get a walk in permit for the exit but the group joining us is coming from seattle to summit whitney.

Normally a stiff fine and you get booted off the trail. Since you would be entering via Trail Crest, I'm not sure which direction they would send you (back out via Trail Crest or down to the Portal).

Since your group is coming from out of state, and it sounds like you need firm dates without the possibility of running afoul of permit issues, you may want to give serious consideration to changing the dates of your trip so that they will correspond with available permit openings for both your entry and (in this case) exit.

As I understand it, you may be ticketed and have to pay a fine. You will be instructed to leave, but you'll already be doing that so that's a moot point. I did this myself a few years ago and passed a ranger near Trail Camp who just said "Hi" to me (I was heading down the trail). This is not an endorsement of any particular course of action, only an observation. On that trip, it was Late September, I had gone in over New Army Pass and was looping back out via the main trail, was not camping in "the zone", and just said to heck with it. Felt I was exercising innocent passage down the trail.
That was a few years ago. For all I know they'll execute you by the side of the trail now!!

Adrian

I have never gone up without a permit, nor would I ever; but I've often wondered how, exactly, a Ranger makes a fine stick in such a case. What's to stop a hiker from providing an alias and a phoney address? Also, it seems very difficult to me for Rangers to coordinate some kind of interception at the Portal upon exit.

Good thread here. What if you had a legitimate excuse for being a day late on your exit date- party sick- broken equipment, etc. Is the attitude of the ranger compassionate to the packer, or does he still give out a ticket? What happens if you just stay over at some high lake fishing for an extra day or just forget what day it is? ( This occurs to me a lot as I get older- lol) I agree that permits are necessary for day trips to avoid crowds on main trail, but when I go out for 7 to 9 days and exit at the portal, am I in jeopardy at trail crest? How about JMT hikers? This summer, when I go out, do I have to account for this beforehand? It seems impossible to plan my 25 day trip to this degree.

If you are hiking the JMT from Yosemite and plan to exit at Whitney Portal you are EXEMPT from the exit quota. They do this because there are very few people hiking from Yosemite. I called Yosemite a few minutes ago and reserved a permit for my summer JMT hike. The wilderness office in Yosemite told me this. Also the new exit quota system is in place of the "whitney zone sticker" which they will no longer be useing.

Honestly this whole labrynthine permit system is such a nightmare to figure out/comply with that I would never even think about Whitney during the quota period.

Straightforward permit systems and, as importnatly, lack of crowds make the many other great mountains in the area even more attractive.

what about just cruising down to the portal at night? i'm sure the rangers get their beauty sleep just like the rest of us

If you are up to it, carry your stuff to the top and then go down the Mountaineers route. With good trail descriptions and some off trail adventure it could be great. There are often people heading down you could tag along with, so you know where to go during the tricky parts.

Then you wouldn't need a permit, since you are not going down the Mt. Whitney trail.

The issue is not the Mount Whitney Zone, which includes the whole MR route above Lower Boy Scout Lake. The issue is the exit permit limiting people using the Main Mount Whitney trail on the way out from the west.

As to how to coordinate, the rangers carry radios.

I couldn't get enough exit permits for my trip starting out of Kearsarge,so I had to settle for the 11 I could get, and in fact had to extend my trip for an extra day as there were nowhere near enough exit permits on the day I really wished to exit.

All I can relay is what was told to me on the phone by a ranger. To wit: the rangers told me there is a $1500 fine per person, and they could conceivably escort you down the mountain. Evidentally they take overuse of this trail quite seriously.

If your hike is starting OUTSIDE of the area that is under the jurisdiction of the White Mountain Ranger District, then an exit permit is NOT required. You don't even need to check for an exit quota. For example, if you're starting from Cedar Grove or Yosemite, the exit rule doesn't apply to your group.

Call the White Mountain Ranger Station to make sure your start point is out of their area.

I got a permit yesterday to enter at Kearsarge pass. I was ok getting in, but since the "Exit quota" was full, I said I was exiting via Cottonwood Lakes.

I had a discussion with the phone lady, who told me that on the day before your trail entry, at 11 AM, there are something like ten "walkin exit quota" <font color = "blue">(isn't that an oxymoron?)</font> spots available on a first-come first-serve basis. And these become available at the same time from four different ranger stations: Lee Vining, Mammoth, Bishop and Lone Pine.

And the exit quota applies to the Mountaineers Route as well... I don't know if the same quota applies or if there are two separate ones.

So... try to get these for your trip. It might help.

Talk about bureaucracy gone haywire! How stupid is it to enforce quotas on people LEAVING the wilderness??? The people making the rules have lost their minds! The Whitney zone is not wilderness, and anyone thinking it is is dreaming. What a bunch of trail Nazis! ...oh... sorry... I'll stop the rant now.

Ken:

Thanks for responding to part of my question. I understand that Rangers carry radios; but without an escort (which, by the way, would leave the Trail Camp Ranger's post vacant - not a good idea at peak time), it doesn't seem likely that a hiker could be easily intercepted at the Portal. Perhaps a Ranger could go partway up the trail, armed with a description of the malefactor...

Anyone care to respond to my other question, though? What's to stop a hiker from simply supplying an alias and a phoney address?

Of course, all this talk is hypothetical. As screwed up as the permit process seems at times, I think they're doing their best, and we should do our best to honor the system.

Did you confirm that the Trail Crest "exit" quota actually applies to exiting via the MR if you enter the Whitney Zone by coming up the back side/JMT? Technically, if you summit Whitney by coming up the back side via the JMT, you do not cross over Trail Crest at all [although you are not far from it]; and if you then continue on down the MR from the summit, you never cross Trail Crest. So how could an exit quota apply to a route that doesn't cross the official "entry" point for this quota?

The issue isn't quotas on people *leaving* the wilderness; it's on the use of the Main Whitney Trail [whether people are coming up or going down, it is still being used]. Use [and overuse] of this trail is the primary issue driving the lottery, quotas and permit reservation fees.

>>The Whitney Zone is not wilderness...<<

Compared to what?
I've heard this before on this board, but I don't think anyone has ever taken the time to specifically define what they consider "wilderness". Opinions are welcome [but perhaps by beginning a new thread].

CaT

ericb-

Normally a ranger will ask to look at your permit as well as your driver's license. So if you provide a phoney address and alias, you'll also have to bring a fake ID to match. I was asked to show proof on the way down to Glacier Lodge in Big Pine, but the other group that was travelling with us did not have a permit and were fined $250 each. Personally I've been up the main trail twice and the MR three times and have never encountered a ranger.

Guys, before you give people convoluted advice on how to avoid the Whitney Zone, you'd better look to see where it is, not where you think it is:
http://www.scaruffi.com/travel/whitney.gif

It is much larger than many people apparently think.

ntuit - When rangers checked our permits on the Whitney Trail (within the past year), they only glanced at the permits that were attached to our packs. No licenses were asked for. What if you don't carry your license on the trail with you? They can't cite you for not carrying your license, only for not having a permit.

Markscor,

I think they would not be too sticky about exiting on a different day, depending on the length of the trip. They might be tighter on a 3 day trip than a 7 day trip. I think they are more concerned with overall traffic per week, than traffic per day (as long as the standard deviation is not too large). If you come out on the wrong day, then more traffic happens that day, compensated by less traffic the day you were supposed to come out. Variances caused by random effects are probably accepted, as opposed to variances caused by lying about your exit plan.

In previous years (on trails other than Whitney) they wanted to know your itinerary, but stated that you did not have to rigidly adhere to your planned exit day.

I admit I'm speculating here, based on my assumption that the Rangers try to be realistic and reasonable.

It's a $200 fine, the last I read. What makes you a prime target for the rangers is you don't have a color coded hang tag like the Main Trail folks. We were stopped twice 2 years ago during our descent after not being stopped the year before that when they had hang tags for everyone entering in the forest and exiting Whitney Portal.

Someone suggested exiting at night. If the weather is good this is a good idea but that is always iffy up high.

Bill

FIRST: To settle where the boundary is. (Thank you Ken)



SECOND:
[[[Talk about bureaucracy gone haywire! How stupid is it to enforce quotas on people LEAVING the wilderness??? The people making the rules have lost their minds! The Whitney zone is not wilderness, and anyone thinking it is is dreaming. What a bunch of trail Nazis! ...oh... sorry... I'll stop the rant now.]]]

Quotas and wilderness protection measures are in place to preserve said wilderness. (whether or not any individual considers it to be wilderness) It's true, that in many areas of the Whitney Trail, "Wild" may not be an apt description. But what's more true, is that there is PLENTY of evidence that overuse is more likely to keep you out of an area than a quota system. Given that choice, <font color = red> I'll live with the quotas!</font>
...tg...