Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board First Timer needs help

Well,,,, at my gym the treadmill's maximum % incline is 15%, and that IS LARGE !! I am used to roof slopes and such. An incline of 15 % gives you a rise of one quarter foot (3 inches) for every foot of travel. SO,,,------ that would be one foot for every four feet, or more like 25 feet for every 100 feet. That is a very large elevation gain over a short distance. I don't think it equates well with the overall gain on the trail. With a trail length of approximately 11 miles, if you use that rate of incline, the vertical gain could easily be ........... OH MY GOODNESS !!!!! ......... OVER 2.5 MILES. TALK ABOUT ALTITUDE SICKNESS !!!

GuitarLake,
I get your point and agree with your analysis.

Candance,
Grade is not synonymous with incline so that might be confusing. Spanky Bob is correct in his estimate of about 10% overall. Here is some rough math. Gross elevation gain (6126') divided by 11 miles of trail (58080') = .1054 or just over 10%. If you straightened the whole deal out into a handy right triangle I think you will find that to be about a 6 degree angle or what I think you are refering to as incline.

I didn't know the difference (or even if there *was* a difference) between percent grade and degrees (like 90 degrees would be a right triangle, or something like that), which is why I asked. My college degree is in music -- never had any math beyond basic geometry in high school (which I hated), no math at all in college (not required for my degree program), and most definitely *not* trig (basic or otherwise). So it sounds like, to use the example given, a 10% grade would be roughly equivalent to a 6 degree "incline" or slope, yes? So to use a more mountain-related example, would the cable section of Half Dome be a 50% grade, or a slope of 50 degrees? I'd been telling my friends that it was 50 degrees, thinking that it was a little over half way between flat and straight up and down (45 degrees being half way between those two extremes). Corrections welcome.

since the slope on half dome varies, you are correct in either notation - there are parts that have a 50%(=45 degree) slope and parts that have 50 degrees as well. Overall, 5 degrees at that angle on solid granite makes little difference.

A slope at a 45 degree angle would be a 100% grade. When run and rise are equal the amount of upward movement is 100% of the amount of forward movement. Maybe this will help people understand what is meant by percent grade.

Nope, just more confused (what's "run" and "rise", etc.)? I thought I had it figured out with Sierra Sam's most recent post. Yours seems to totally contradict his. I'd ask who's right; but in the interest of not making this a mathematics message board, I'll voluntarily say let's "call it a day" on this one, and I'll do some more Internet research on my own later. Thanks for the input.

Ray,
I'm also 50 and have climbed Whitney three times. The first rule as somone else pointed out is that everyone is different. Two years ago my sister planned to hike with our group and only made it 300 yards up the trail before she felt dizzy and had to return to the Portal. I've never had any problems. So you see even two people as close as siblings can have different reactions to altitude. My advice is to concentrate on your heart-lung efficiency. How ever you get that done is up to you but for me 30 minutes of jogging on the treadmill (with incline) per day worked well. I also spend one night camped at the Portal to acclimate. That seems to help. Drink fluids! Bob R gave excellent advice a few weeks ago when he suggested to take a day hike on Whitney one or two months prior to the real trip. If you can do this it will be one of the best preparation tools possible. Good Luck!

CT,
Run is your forward movement (distance traveled), rise is your upward movement (elevation gain). If you related this to stairs you place you foot on the surface that relates to the run, you raise your foot the distance of rise. Does that help? For my calculations in an earlier post I used the distance from Portal to the top for "run" and the elevation gain for "rise". IMO, in the big scheme of things it's mostly just academic when it comes to hiking these trails unless you like to compare one trail to another for an estimate of difficulty. Way too many other variables like suface conditions, altitude, weight on the back, etc., to be a true indicator in itself.

Helps; thanks.

Run is indeed forward (horizontal) distance and rise is vertical distance. However, run is not distance traveled, unless the trail is flat.

If you were going up a steady slope, the distance traveled would be the square root of the sum of run squared plus rise squared (Pythagorian theorem).

On the other hand, I have pointed out earlier on this board that horizontal distance and distance traveled differ only trivially for hiking trails, even steep ones.

Now I remember why I hated high school geometry! :-)

CT,
Don't feel bad. I can't do anything with music except putting a new CD in my machine and I can tell the difference between Stevie Ray Vaughan and Mahler on a good day. Alan is correct about the error in the terms I used regarding run as distance traveled. Here is why I define it as such in this thread and for general trail analysis. If you use distance between start point and end point as "run" in Whitney's case it would indicate that the climb is a 38.6% grade or that it maintains an average 21.14 degree angle to the top from the bottom. If you are following along on your calculator (yeah right!) I used 15840 feet (~ 3 miles from Topo) as the approximate straight line distance from Portal to peak and 6126 feet as elevation gained. If I use the Pythagorean Theorem to check this out something just doesn't fit if I do all the squaring and such indicated by that theroem. If I square the elevation (6126') and add it to the square of the distance (15840') and take the square root of that sum it would lead me to believe the actual distance traveled was close to 3.21 miles (16983') and we all know the trail is over 11 miles. I know this is a bunch of math junk and I apologize.

Hey, Scott... AlanK is spot on. O' Pythagorus stands tall, even on Mt. Whitney! As we all know, the Main Trail does not bee-line its way to the summit. If it did, your calculations would be correct. If you take the approximately 11-mile distance (58,080 feet) of the Main Trail, and use your 6,126 "rise," you'll see a result of 57,756 feet--by squaring 58,080, then subtracting the square of 6,126, and then taking the square root of that figure (the Pythagorean Theorem). The rise of 6,126 is 10.6 percent of the "run" of 57,756 feet. These figures are approximate, but Pythagorus' thinking, as hard as it is on all of us math-challenged Whitney hikers, works, even at high altitude! Thanks AllanK for the reminder. And thank you Scott for making us think.

...and thanks Scott for the good laugh with your Stevie Ray Vaughan versus Mahler comment! I about split my gut when I read it. As for all the elevated math stuff (pardon the pun), I repent in dust and ashes for having inadvertently begun this side-thread by asking the question.

By the way, Ray Kwan -- any relation to Michelle Kwan the ice skater??

CaT

Sorry I did not respond quickly to my earlier post regarding the percent grade of the Whitney Trail. I was travelling and had no access to the Internet. After reading the responses I am glad to see that there seems to be some consensus opinions regarding the incline on the main Whitney trail. Here are some addditional things to consider that I hope others might find useful.

Incline angles measured in degrees are the angles that most people are familiar with. For example a 30 degree angle is the sharp end of a 30/60/90 degree drafting triangle.

Percent grade is a measurement term most commonly used by civil engineers and others as a measurment for road grades, rail beds, and the like. A 30% grade is equivalent to an incline angle of 16.7 degrees. A 15% grade, typically the highest grade most treadmills can maintain, is equal to an incline angle of 8.5 degrees. A 100% grade means that you rise 100 feet for each 100 feet of horizontal travel. This is equivalent to a 45 degree angle.

Here are some handy comparisons assuming the trail you are hiking is gaining so many feet per meile.

250 feet per mile is an angle of 2.7 degrees and a grade of 4.7%.

500 feet per mile is an angle of 5.4 degrees and a grade of 9.5%.

750 feet per mile is an angle of 8.1 degrees and a grade of 14.2%.

1000 feet per mile is an angle of 10.7 degrees and a grade of 18.9%.

1250 feet per mile is an angle of 13.3 degrees and a grade of 23.7%.

1500 feet per mile is an angle of 15.9 degrees and a grade of 28.4%.

1750 feet per mile is an angle of 18.3 degrees and a grade of 33.1%.

2000 feet per mile is an angle of 20.7 degrees and a grade of 37.9%.

2250 feet per mile is an angle of 23.1 degrees and a grade of 42.6%.

2500 feet per mile is an angle of 25.3 degrees and a grade of 47.3%.

From the example discussed above regarding the 35 degree chute angle, the grade is 70.1% and translates into a gain of 3,700 per mile.

AlanK - Thanks for your reply. I remember your help in last year's discussions about weather forecasting.