Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Whitney Toilets Decision?

I was under the impression that the Forest Service was planning to publish a decision on the toilets sometime during April. So far I haven't seen anything. They said they would put a public notice in the INYO Register when the decision is made.

When someone learns of a decision, please put a post here to let us know where to get information about it.

i'm not sure what information you are looking for but this little blurb was in today's (May 4th) L.A, Times Outdoors section:

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Digging a loo: This routine is to dig a "cat hole" no more than 8 inches deep, mix the waste with some soil and cover the hole. But it's not ideal in alpine areas or desert canyons where the waste won't easily break down or where it may contaminate the habitat. "In high-use areas, I recommend packing it out," Yosemite's Schweizer said. For the crowded Mt. Whitney Trail, rangers will be handing out waste bags as part of a voluntary "pack it out" policy.
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thus it seems as if the toilets will be around this year since packing your own is not yet mandatory.

As with many major changes, perhaps they're phasing in pack-it-out to get people used to the idea and to see how people respond to it when it is actively promoted (even though still voluntary). That way, if it ultimately doesn't work out, then they don't have to worry about going to the added trouble of restoring the toilets again (which they would have to do if they had made pack-it-out mandatory and removed the toilets beginning this year, and then pack-it-out ends up being a bust).

So far, no news at the INYO National Forest site or at the INYO Register newspaper Public Notice section (where the Forest Service says they will publish official notice of a decision).

This was in yesterday's Ridgecrest newspaper. (See http://www.ridgecrestca.com/articles/2004/05/22/news/local/news08.txt for the original.)

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Toilets on Mt. Whitney Trail will remain in place

Saturday, May 22, 2004 9:48 PM PDT

LONE PINE - The Mt. Whitney Human Waste Environmental Assessment was released for public review in January, and 84 public responses were received and analyzed. U.S. Forest Service District Ranger Garry Oye said the Forest Service will not be removing any toilets during the 2004 season. He has decided to postpone the final decision until this fall.

"Members of the public and local residents of the town of Lone Pine have expressed concerns about the feasibility of a mandatory pack out waste program," said Oye.

With over 16,000 people traveling up the main Mt. Whitney trail each year, the Forest Service wants to make sure they have a solution that will work. They want to continue the open dialogue with the Mt. Whitney trail users and test a voluntary pack out system this summer.

Also this summer, the Inyo National Forest would like to evaluate the economic effect Mt. Whitney climbers have on the local communities of Lone Pine and Independence.

"Business owners and local citizens would like us to consider their interests and do everything we can to avoid any adverse economic impacts that might come from a pack out waste requirement," Oye said.

Currently hikers use the existing two backcountry toilets at Trail Camp and Outpost Camp. The Mt. Whitney Human Waste Management EA provided an analysis of management alternatives for managing human waste on the Mt. Whitney Trail.

In addition, the Inyo National Forest will be establishing a water quality monitoring program that can serve as a baseline to determine effects over the long run.

For more information, contact Brian Spitek, wilderness manager, at (760) 876-6217.

Whitney has 16,000 hikers annually. There are 1820 registered members on this board. And only 84 people responded to the EA? That is a pitiful turnout.

I'm one of the 84 so I guess I'm not pitiful ;-).

I, also, mentioned the economic impact on the community which wasn't mentioned in the assessment in my letter but is now an issue.

Bill

My contribution during the comment period was a formal offer to finance the cost of the new toilets, to be repaid from the savings caused in future years by having the toilets. This was designed to prevent a "no toilets" decision based on a claim that there was no extra money available in the current budget for the new toilets.

Having just come from the thread about water sources on the Main Trail -- and as someone who intends to drink iodine treated water from Trail Camp -- I sure am glad to see the Forest Service decide to keep the toilets in place. One can only imagine what would happen to water quality if they were removed. No amount of iodine would be enough for me.

How much does it cost to service those toilets annually?

I'd think most us would be happy to pay an extra $5-10 for permits if it meant keeping the toilets. And businesses in Lone Pine might be willing to hold a fundraiser to help with costs. The FS needs to be more creative about funding here.

Unless, of course, funding is not the real issue...

Does anyone know if the toilets will be open this weekend?

Outpost was open last weekend, Trailcamp was not.

I spoke with a ranger this morning about the likelihood of closing the Outpost and Trail Camp solar toilets. I was told that the current Forest Service thinking goes something like this.

The solar toilets don't work well. Technically they are not up to the task and people are misusing them, thus making them all but completely ineffective.

The average person does not want to pack out their poop. (I think this point is pretty obvious.) Most people also don't know how to poop into bag and are thus afraid to try it.

Bagged poop is easier for the Forest Service to haul out.

The Forest Service solution is to take out the solar toilets and replace them with small stations that will make it easier for people to use a wag bag. These stations will provide privacy, a seat to make things easier, and a convenient method to wrap everything up in a neat tidy bundle. There would also be a receptacle to place your waste in. The Forest Service would haul out the bagged stuff using the same helicopter service they're using for the solar toilets, only the waste would be easier for them to handle.

This plan is appealing because it replaces bad technology (solar toilets) with a more reliable system and seems to be more workable because I believe that most casual users of the Main Trail would not pack out their poop.

Wonder if they're referring to setting up several of these "systems":

http://traveljohn.vostek.com/1-1-1.htm

FYI, people in my group reported using both facilities on Saturday (see http://www.whitneyportalstore.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002276).
When we got our permit on Thursday we were asked to take a survey on the subject at the ranger station.

Since I had seen this topic posted before the hike, I took along a plastic produce bag and two zipper sandwich bags just in case. I ended up using them near Trail Crest. It was pretty hard to get the waste in the produce bag without smearing the bag, but I managed to get in most of it with a thin rock. Then I double zipped it and carried it in a pocket of my pack. I doubt if very many people would have the patience to go though this process (particularly most women).

Fred

FYI:

If your interested in "carrying it out," you can ask at the Ranger Station, and they'll give you some "poop kits."

One other item I forgot to mentiion in my earlier post. I mentioned to the ranger that the wag bag dispenser on the North Fork of Lone Pine Creek was empty and he admitted that the Forest Service has been running low on bags and they've had to juggle around their supply. It sounded like the Forest Service had under estimated he number of bags people would be using this year or they are having a budget shortage effecting the ability to supply such bags to the public.

Fred,I guess now I know why you are "Versatile Fred".Thanks for the info but what did you do with the flat rock?

<blockquote><em>It was pretty hard to get the waste in the produce bag without smearing the bag</em></blockquote>Hate to harp on this subject, but...

...I have a few years of pretty much daily poop bagging experience (thanks to a 65lb dog). This is a real simple process if you have the proper bag and use the proper technique. You want one that's long and narrow (but generic plastic grocery bags work too - check for holes, though!). We found a box of some sort of wholesale bakery storage bags at Smart&Final that were a good size (about 5 inches wide by 14 inches deep). But now our newspaper comes in a free double plastic bag that's slightly bigger and these work great, too, plus they are a nice opaque blue which helps when you're carrying it around afterward.

Anyway, you just stick you hand in to the end of the bag, grab the item in question (the bag between hand and item), reverse the bag, and tie it off. I don't think I've every had a "failure" using this system.

It's a guess, but are most of these replies from men? Have you climbed Mt. Shasta? Poop bags are manditory there. It's not that difficult. In fact it's easier to cut a paper lunch bag lengthwise, poop in it, roll it up, and place it in a ziplock, than it is to dig a 6 inch cathole in hard soil. For us women, it's a bit tricky keeping the pee out of it, but it's worth the effort if it's going to keep the environment/water cleaner. I'm all for it.

Mt Shasta showed me that someone in the government still has a sense of humor as their pack it out kits include a paper target complete with bullseye (this is not a joke).