Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Water quality on Mt Whitney trail from the Portal

Outside of the main Mt. Whitney trail I sometimes use a filter but often I don't. However on the main Mt. Whitney trail I feel better using a filter.

As far as the virus risk. Outside of the USA it is a big problem. Inside of the USA the risk is small. If you feel you like being totally safe, go ahead a double treat.

The procedure at the Ranger Station now is to hand you a "poop bag" when you pick up your permit, so yes, you are supposed to "pack out your poop" everywhere on the mountain. I haven't looked to see whether there is anything stating whether the solar toilet will be reopened later in the season.

I remember a conversation with Bob concerning the purity of Sierra water in which he discussed how quickly any contaminants in the water will move downstream (and disperse) and how slowly (if at all) they will migrate into the water source (assuming that most people will do the right thing and move away from the stream before doing their business).

I also remember listening to a story told by Paul Sigala during which he told about taking a drink from a Sierra stream while a bear was taking a poop upstream (apparently the bear had a bowel movement after being scared by their group). They did get sick, which points out that it is important to be aware of your surroundings. I believe that Bob emphasizes this point in his paper.

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I've heard that the little iodine tablets that you can put in your water bottle are not completely effective. Is there any truth to that? I did use them last year twice while climbing Whitney. I didn't have any problems aside from the bad taste the iodine left in the water.

Rafael...

JoshCube,
Your descriptions left me with a bad visual of a mountain of poop and turds floating downstream and a bad taste in my mouth.

Rafael,

There's a bacterium crypto-something-or-another that is resistant to iodine treatment, because it has a hard candy shell... I mean hard cyst. Everything else, including viruses, is killed by iodine (caveats to follow).

The industry line is that filters don't get out the viruses and treatment doesn't get the cysts, so you gotta use both. I make no claims to know if any of these are present in the Whitney Zone.

Issues with iodine:
-Some people are allergic (I've read that if you're allergic to shell fish or have thyroid issues you shouldn't use it).

-It takes 30 minutes at room temp to work (which means considerably longer for ice cold mountain run-off).

Jo, I just wanted to make the point that the Whitney Zone is a high use area.

I wandered around India for several weeks, and drank ONLY from my Katadyn bottle with the Exstream Virustat filter, and I didn't have a single tummy gurgle. This thing is the size of a one-liter water bottle. All of the filters and the iodizer are inside the bottle, so all you do is squeeze it, and out comes sterilized water. It kills everything from viruses on up.

Backpacker magazine ran an article a few years ago that Iodine was ineffective against Crypto sporidium.

Other issues with Iodine use. Make sure you let it set for 30 minutes before adding flavored drinks. Also watch out for the threads. If you dip your water bottle in the river, pop in an iodine tablet and close tightly, the threads area between the bottle and the cap are not treated. That is where your lips make contact with the water bottle.

Personally, using a filter is not that big of a deal. It weighs about 1 pound for the group and is easy to use. Even if you have a filter, you don't need to use it all the time. You can use it when you wonder about water quality (like trail camp for instance).

Richard,

Have you seen the "Pack it Out" signs at Whitney Portal?

They are confusing to say the least, like a few other of the signs they have posted. One says pack out everything the other says it is a voluntary program.

I wonder what would happen if I volunteer not to take a WAG bag. I don't think Mr. Oye and cohorts would be very happy with me.

The conversation I had last year with someone at the desk at MWRS was the solar latrines were done, finished, see you later.

We can get into a long discussion on this alone and I've thought about post a thread to that end. However, I figure someone with more information on this thing will get around to it eventually.

The signs must be something new since last summer. I don't recall seeing them last year, and when I walked through the trailhead structure recently, I didn't bother looking at the signs. I was more interested in getting back to the car, and dropping the pack.

Since you brought up the subject, I'll go on the record as saying I think figuring out a maintenance plan for the solar toilets would be the more environmentally friendly plan of action. Hardcore enthusiasts probably won't have a problem with "pack it out," but I think one-time visitors will.

YappyDog - josh has it right on his calculations.
While it's true that more than one person can use a permit, yet the 100+60 is not the number of permits, but rather the number of permit "spots", i.e., number of people. For example, if there are 100 permit spots available on a given day, and someone takes 4 of his friends with him (total group of 5) -- getting a single permit for the entire group, there will now be 95 permit spots remaining for that day, not 99. So josh is correct in calculating the number of people allowed up and down the trail per day.

Richard,

Two winters ago there was a lot of discussions here about the Human Waste EIR in conjunction with Mr. Oye's, the Mt. Whitney area Ranger, plan for Mt. Whitney. My feeling is we will have those conversations again as his plan to turn Mt. Whitney into Mt. Shasta plays out.

There are two signs right next to one another on the new trailhead "Patio Cover". One states the Pack it out program is voluntary and the one right next to it says pack it out, pack it all out, which doesn't sound voluntary to me nor realistic considering how many neophyte backpackers head up the trail in the summer.

california-trailwalker,

Good to know that Josh had it right and there aren't really 5 or 6 times as many poopers, er, um, hikers out there.....

Wow, after reading all the posts in this thread, I'm surprised that no one else has suggested what I will now input: just pack in all the liquid you will drink!

I did the main trail for the first time last August 31 on a solo day hike and packed 7 20 oz. Gatorades. My pack was 21 pounds at the start, with the Gatorade the biggest contributor by far to that total. (I only used 6 of the bottles.)

Result? No worry about the quality of what I was drinking and no time lost with the hassle of whatever purification method(s) one might otherwise use.

Now -- if I was hiking 30 miles instead of 22 round trip, things would be different. But why not keep things simple if you can for a "shorter" hike? You may not like this idea if your preference would be for a lighter pack -- but it will appeal to others. And remember -- your pack gets lighter the more liguid you drink.

Incidentally, I left the portal at 4:00 AM, summited at 12:45 PM, left the summit at 1:40 PM, and returned to the portal at 6:32 PM -- and felt like an accomplished 59 year older (from Florida no less). I should post a lengthy trip report some time on this board, as I think my experience is probably a good generic and classic one for first timers as well as one that contained some unique things to it (like the bear that passed by me in the portal parking lot that I didn't see).

Last time I was at Trail Camp, which was a couple of years ago, I was filtering waterat the lake and a piece of toilet paper went floating by.

Anymore, I use Aqua Mira to purify and sometimes I don't purify, but I would along the Main Whitney Trail.

I agree with you whitney fan.That is just what i did june 30 of last year. I did refill with snow pack just in case, but ended up only using the water i brought with for my day hike. That was the hardest thing i ever did and took 3 days to recover. I can't wait to do it again. At age 50 now maybe i can cut down my previous time of 12 hours round trip.

OMG! Everyone's got an opinion...

No reason to be standing on the soapbox about not being cautious. If people feel the need to take precautions, more power to them. The weight ain't an issue and filter time is like water cooler time.

I have never used filters above tree line, but people do crap up there and **** does run downhill. Alot has to do with the strength of immunity. Most of us climbing Whitney are healthy stapping folk with vigoruous immunity (glad the winter ponch won't affect that). As I get older, I take more precautions 'cause my body ain't what it used to be.

Wisdom of the board is great, but telling me you've safely hiked for 5o years don't help. There are alot more buttheads on the trails these days.

Bottomline, if you want to be sure...take precautions!!!

This is from an article by a 30-year long backpacker, Dr. Robert W. Derlet, Professor of Medicine at the School of Medicine at U.C. Davis (assisted by Kemal Ger of the Department of Environmental Science at Davis). Article entitled “High Sierra Water: What is in the H20?” From Sierra Nature Notes, Volume 3, April 2004

Here is the part on viruses

Viruses - Viruses generally do not do well in the open, exposed, harsh environment of the Sierra. Although certain viruses such as Norwalk Virus (Cruise Ship Virus) have the ability to sustain viability on external surfaces, survival in the Sierra landscape would be very difficult. Furthermore, no documented cases of viral acquired illnesses can be traced from drinking water from Sierra streams or lakes. Purification to kill viruses in most backcountry acres of the Sierra is not necessary.

And here is the part on Giardia:

Giardia
In the 1980s backpacker literature was filled with the dangers of Giardia in the Sierra. I, along with other scientists believe that the risk of Giardia has been well overstated. Yes, there are “hot spots” of Giardia of which there is risk of acquisition. Giardia is a zoonotic-type infection with host in many non-human mammals. We have analyzed multiple specimens of pack animal manure along the John Muir Trail and have not found significant amounts of Giardia. Furthermore, other studies examining horse and pack animal manure of animals using back country trails has failed to yield significant amounts of Giardia. Of concern also is the long survivability of Giardia in cold climates. If one wants to be entirely safe, one could purify water but my suspicion is that perhaps less than 1% of streams in the Sierra would have Giardia significant enough to cause infection in humans.

The operative phrase in Tony B's quoted report is "in most backcountry acres of the Sierras." Whitney is not backcountry by any strech of the imagination.

My two cents...KISS. Keep it Simple Sam! Like Whitney Fan I carry all the water I'll need. I packed 132 ounces, 100 (water) in a bladder and 32 (electrolytes) in a Nalgene. No filter or pills and no stops to "make water". I drank as much as I wanted but ran out within a mile or so of the trail head (on the descent)...no big deal. The further and higher I climbed, the lighter my pack got...a very positive incentive for staying hydrated. Of course, I drank copious amounts of water during the previous two days. Why worry...just pack it.