Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board mountain lions

The talk of bears made me recall a conversation with a Ranger (Dave?) at the WPS a couple of weeks ago. While talking about the acceptance of wag bags and bear canisters, he mentioned that this year there were no breakins (by bears, that is) at the Portal. I thought it was an amazing thing.

ON LIONS: I never thought of carrying a stun gun for defense against a cougar attack. It does seem that it would be easier to just touch any part of the cougar rather than wield a knife, etc. A person definitely would be shocked along with the cougar though - drool wetted fangs make for a great electrical connection! It would probably be effective in prompting the cougar to unclamp, but as you mention, the hope would be that you could recover before the cougar came at you again (maybe expecting the shock would give you an advantage). A cougar on your back is the worst case scenario, so whatever weapon your violence value system, experience, and legal restrictions allows you to carry (maybe none), the crucial thing is to fight back and get the cat off of your back! As for the probability of actually coming in contact with a cougar, be reminded that most common statistical calculations are based on something like "all wilderness visitors to National Forests and Parks" or even broader populations. It seems that a golfer who habitually finishes his game even during thunderstorms would face a much greater risk of being struck by lightning. Similarly, a person habitually traveling alone, in areas known to be inhabited by cougars, faces a higher probability of having an encounter. The only cougar I have actually seen was when I was driving on Angeles Crest Highway just above La Canada. It was small - bobcat size - but with that long distinctive tail. The cat displayed the calico-like coloring of a cub, so I looked for the momma cat to no avail. I almost crashed the car. What an experience. The scariest encounter was when I was starting on a 5 day snowshoe trip into the Sierra interior via the Taboose Pass Trail in late December, 1993. The trail was slippery with a light dusting of fresh snow covering ice beginning at about 8,000'. There were a few cougar tracks in the snow, well defined, and about 2/3 the size of a closed fist. I wasn't worried - I had seen cougar tracks fairly often in the San Gabriels and Sierra. I stopped in a wide place at 9,000' (the switchbacks) to put on crampons. I stooped to buckle the crampon straps, and noticed more cougar tracks, and then saw what looked to be cougar viewpoint at the outside edge of the trail. Front paw prints in line with each other, impressions of it's haunches clearly visible behind, and a single snow angel left by that beautiful tail. The cat had evidently been watching me come up the switchbacks below. The fur on the back of my neck bristled (in my case the last hold-outs of Head Hair), and I'm sure my heart skipped a few beats. I continued up the trail at an ever-slowing pace, and then found myself at a dead stop, just scanning the entire area - for that cougar. That was enough for me. I headed back to home and hearth and to plan a trip to another local. The cougars are really around, and the more we encroach on their territory, the higher the chances of having an encounter.

ON BEARS: I must take responsibility for the bear situation we have in the Sierra. I remember in mid-December 1974 when I camped at Whitney Portal the night before my first Winter Whitney summit trip via the Main Trail. Inside my little mountain tent, I munched on a fried chicken dinner brought up from Lone Pine and thought nothing of it. Nowadays, the bears would be choosing lots to see who was going to have the first crack at the idiot and his chicken dinner. Throughout the 1970's, even in known bruin territory I at most made half-hearted attempts at hanging my food in a tree. Above tree line, I made no real effort to secure my supplies since I believed that bears wouldn't come up there anyway (remember the reports in the 1990's of a bear traveling freely over Bishop Pass to Dusy Basin and plundering hikers at will? Live and learn). Up to the present, I have never lost food to a bear, but in July of 1995, my past transgressions in bear etiquette caught up with me. I was camped along the JMT in northern Leconte Canyon at Big Pete Meadow, heading for some peak-bagging in the Muir Pass area. I was being a good boy, bear cannister, separate eating and sleeping areas, etc. Just before sunset, I watched as 2 hikers passed by on the JMT heading south. When they passed, and were about 50 yards down the trail, a big black bear (in this case very dark brown) emerged from the creekside brush and out onto the JMT. He looked straight at my camp, about 100 yards east of the trail in open forest. He began ambling toward me, sniffing the air with upturned snout. I clapped my hands, shouted, waived my arms, and he kept on coming. In all the time I spent in the Alaskan Bush during the 1970's (stationed there as a medic in the Army) with several bear encounters (black bear as well as grizzly), I never had one "keep on coming." Human Habituated Bear. I jumped up onto a huge boulder, and threw pebbles at the bear in the hopes that he would not shred my sleeping bag and other gear. He finally sauntered off back the way he came. I slept well that night, really. I realize that the bear was just displaying a learned response to Human Mis-Management!

Forgive my rambling, but I thought the perspective of a long-lived local may be of value. The point of all this is that as human encroachment on wilderness lands increases, and especially if a person spends a great deal of time in areas frequented by Lions and Bears, encounters will increase. In my case, with my history of exposure, the encounters will find me - the odds are high. Every time I find myself wrestling with a bear cannister, I remind myself that people like me are responsible for the situation in the first place.

Hey, BeachAV8R (Chris), I like your cougar defense idea. A true Climbing partnership should include splitting up trail-sweep duty as well as swapping leads on technical terrain. There should be some ground rules though, such as the lead climber carrying all of the group survival gear (stove, tent, food, etc.) - not for selfish reasons you see, but rather to allow the trail sweep to be more agile in case of, well, you know.....

Doug Forbes

It seems to me, after everything I've read about this, that the best thing to do, if you find yourself in a position where either a bear or cougar is about to eat you, that you shove your fist right down their throat. Anyone have any input on that?

I've seen that done on television. You have to turn them inside out and then kick their butt down the hill:)

On an adventure show traveling in Kenya, Dr. Bob Arnot interviewed a respected elder of a Massai tribe who had survived a leopard attack. It had him by his head, but he was able to stick his dagger into the belly of the leopard.

On my 'face to face' the one thing was the 'no fear' look in the lions eyes; just curiousity at the old man with the walking stick and tiny SwissArmy knife. The first time I had left my bear fighting knife at home.

Interestingly, someone reported on the other Whitney board about a ML sighting at First Water on the trail to Mt. Wilson this past weekend.

http://www.mt-whitney.info/viewtopic.php?t=1152

I also spotted a bear along Angeles Crest Hwy on the way up there yesterday. First instinct was to grab the camera and get out of the car to chase after it. Second (instantaneous!) instinct was to keep driving!! :-)

-Laura

I live within walking distance to the closed trailhead to Mt. Wilson and there was a lot of heavy helicopter activity just before sunset yesterday. Usually it is a stranded hiker/climber but maybe the ML had something to do with it.

From the message that HikerLaura mentioned, "Also, around dusk yesterday, a hiker came across a mountain lion right on the trail by First Water! The cat was startled and ran for a distance, then just stopped and watched the hiker."

Now the interesting question is, would that be a good reason to call it a day and head back, or just continue with the original hiking plan.

Keep hiking! They are around the trail and aware of your presence more often than you know it (if they are in the area of course). In most cases like bears, they are just as intimidated by you as you are of them.

This must be how the food chain developes at the edge of populated areas:

Seattle Times: Pets vanish as Seattle\'s coyote sightings increase

Seattle Times: Feds kill wolf believed to have killed 120 sheep in Montana

I think I posted bits and pieces of this last year but here it goes again...

July 6 2005 there is this young lady tending the cash register at the portal store. I bought a coffee cup, a couple of the gold snow globes and T-shirts. While she's ringing me up I talk to her. She might be Doug's daughter, not sure, anyway, I asked her if she has hiked up there lately, she said no way, there are mountain lions up there.

I said well they're just cats. She said yeah but they stalk you for miles.

I said OK thanks how much do I owe you, it was $50 something.

Next day I start off at about 7:15 a.m., summited around 3:30 p.m. The snow was nice and slushy on the way up.

On the way down, around dark on July 7, slip and fall on my rear end as slush turns to ice and only a yard from the dirt just above trailside meadow. Good thing, long fall there.

Anyway, totally goofing around all day and into the night, around 11:30 p.m. at Lone Pine Lake I start to greet people on the way up! I must've chewed the rag with close to 10 people near midnight.

About 12:15 a.m. I stop at a switchback just below Lone Pine Lake to sit down and listen to the quiet. I could see the portal lights below.

My headlamp reflected a blue-green candy wrapper. I said doggone day hikers.

Then I looked closer. Wasn't a candy wrapper. Wasn't a dog. Wasn't a bear. It was a cat. Beady eyes.

My headlamp didn't throw enough light to make a silouhette but when I realized what it was, it realized what I was, too. I yelled at it. I said, "Hey, what are you doing?" Calmly, the kitty looked down the trail, very slowly, knowing I was going to go there, then looked right back at me.

Well, I didn't know I could make that much noise with trekking poles but I did. I looked back, no beady eyes stalking me. I guess I wasn't tantalizing enough. I'll try better next time.

That's the coolest story..wow...!

Awesome..

Chris

The big cats are spreading. On Friday, Nov. 17, a secretary in our office in downtown San Luis Obispo came to work and confronted a 120 lb cat in the parking lot. Police were concerned because of lots of foot traffic and a fairly nearby elementary school. So, they killed the cat. Animal control was not confident in the effectiveness of the darts under the circumstances.
Coming soon to a neighborhood near you.

So I've got a weird question: While I was on the Taboose Pass Trail, I saw bear and cat tracks on the way down. It looked as though the cat had been marking (adding it scent) in response to my relieving myself on the trail on the way up. (I know nobody is as crazy as I am, so the likelyhood of someone being offended by my not stepping off of the trail was slim to none. I didn't see a soul in two days.) Is it possible that this is what the cat was doing, or am I just dreaming?

Richard; no pics of the tracks? Around 1980 I followed momma bear and baby bear tracks in the snow just above Bench Lake, around a ledge and right into a cave.

I don't know if the cat was marking in response to Richard's marking, but... I had a friend who raised goats and pigs, and would mark his fence line each night to keep the cats away. I've known of some who do the same around their tent in remote camps. I've also heard stories of it creating interest by predators rather than repeling them. What the truth is maybe someone knows.

Hi Talus Your story reminds me of the old boy down south that was working on a news story about bears, his buddies kept telling him to get closer to the cave , stoty ended up in a movie Faces of Death.
I have been holding out on the cat reports, yea we have them ,very seldom see them and they mark the same spots Doug and I mark.
I have gone up on hikes taking direct paths and returned to find cat tracks following for a while, Earlene and I have watched cats on the Portal road nights after we take the trash into town.
Some winters ago Earlene and I went to check the store and campground the camp host and I broke trail from the second switchback to the campground and Earlene and the camphosts wife in street cloths and low cut shoes made it to the campground, but it was getting colder and the snow tends to drift from here to the store They decided to wait for us to check the store and they would walk around in the sun, as we returned from the store we could see tracks heading down so we knew they would be at the truck. About half way to the truck we found cat tracks following Earlene and Janean when we got close we could see them sitting inside talking , later Earlene said something didn't feel right so they decided to return to the trucks and I told her about the cat tracks .
Doug and I was doing a night hike coming down trying to find ARC Pass / Irvine or a chute that would drop us into Maysan drainage about 3:00 AM we make the boulder field at Meysan Lake and headed home (a little cold,both of us had that thing that makes you shake and stupid ) something followed us the rest of the night It stayed close enough to hear movement but we never got a clear view ,I hope it was a cat.
Someday I will tell the Sleepy Hollow story and the kid (Skaish) that says No Doug not there its Lower Boys Scout Lake.
What would the mountains be without these experiences, Cities? when we travel into the backcountry we tend to be the odd element, barely able to make the trip in the best of conditions .Thanks Doug

<img src="http://www.beartrackersden.com/beartracker/tigerfood.gif" width="700" height="200">
Calvin and Hobbes comic copyright by United Press Syndicate.

LOL!!!!! That's some of the funniest stuff I've read in a while.

TD, no pics. I stopped shooting after crossing the pass.

Tina, odd that I didn't see any sign of your work, but both crossings where in the dark. (Continuing the humor: those weren't your markings I saw on my way down?)

Just in case the cat was still around, I was swinging my poles wildly and cursing very loudly every time I slipped on that gawd-awful trail. I think I was obnoxious enough that it wouldn't have messed with me.