Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Whitney Summit Survival 12/9/06 - 12/12/06

If it is that report then:

As far as I am concerned he was separated from his shelter and other resources for a few days on the ridge in whiteout conditions. The only his complain was that the first helicopter did not help him due to the "out of their boundary jurisdiction." Many people misread his point.

kev, I agree with your" people rely too much on GPS and cell phones."

doesn't anyone take flags with them anymore to mark the return on a winter route? I realize they can blow over,etc, but when GPS batteries run out, it's the same effect, actually worse. Harvey

edit: my comments pertain to the story in the link above, not the current story by Doug.

Doug:
Thanks for this. You're very courageous for posting this on a site that sees a flood of experienced mountaineers who may judge you for what you did and the decisions that you made. But we are all victim to our own subjective minds and non-event feedback and your experience is a lesson that we can all learn from.

Glad you made it out ok!

Hi Over the years I always thought we should open a very honest debate on this subject, when did the accident start ,it is not the end result that speaks to the issue, the events and choices that set the framework in motion, reactions to those events and the most likely outcome.
The American Alpine Club publishes a list of some accidents each year , a quick read ...several things stand out , Bad choices or lack of skill/ experience.
Storms just don't happen they are in the forecast now weeks ahead, but given one may not know the hour the storm will arrive, then the choice to go , one should expect the worst.

Last year I made some comment about you drive by house size boulders past two road closed signs trees blown down and then ask how the trail is ? For a few just fine, ice and snow solid, trip to the summit a straight liner and lots of sliding down, for the others that draw from some summer hike and maybe a few ski trips, just bought that ax thing and those crampons. May not be the best time to experience the Mountain,

Flags that we hear" I wanted to see what its like in the Winter" "I plan on taking snowshoes/ do I need snowshoes?", "THEY told me I NEED an ice ax and crampons ", "How is the trail marked/ where does it start" Where can I get a list of GPS points/I downloaded a map with way points but the signal is to weak to find the trailhead." "Where can we rent ice axes and crampons". "I have a three season....." these question/statements are the building blocks of the accidents that follow .

The next level that could happen is choices are made by what I have labeled ego exceedes ability, now ability can be the saving factor here, bad choice made can be overcome by much experience and knowing that things are giong south and YOU are now in the position to recover from those errors of judgement.

If you spend much time in this climbing community you will have friend that pass every so often, the accidents that take them are far below their ability, we all know that everyday in the mountains maybe a good day to die and try our hardest to return home not by luck but by staying focused on the issues at hand.I know many on this board that have been in the final stages of "this might not turn out that great", those are the teachers that we draw from so next time we won't do that again.
Doug F. made the right choices after the trip turned south. He would have made it back to the portal and home on his own . THE QUESTION EACH PERSON NEEDS TO ASK COULD HAVE THEY WEATHER THE SAME CONDITIONS?

I completely agree with Doug Sr. Undoubtedly, experiences speak out through his writing.

I believe people excuse themselves too often referring to so called uncontrollable or unexpected factors.

Doug Forbes's case of pulmonary edema was such a factor, however.

Confidence in one's abilities and experience can cloud one's judgment, minimizing the risks. Most of my hikes in the Sierras have been solo because I enjoy the solitude and because going alone is far less complicated and requires minimal planning (having a buddy requires four times as much organization). Although I hike only during the fair weather months, some friends think I'm nuts to go on these solo jaunts. Their minds are haunted by "what if" fears, and their concerns have some validity. I accept these risks, which I judge to be minimal.

A couple of years ago I heard an interview with Joe Simpson of "Touching the Void" fame and he said something that blew my mind. He said that he had lost ten of his friends from climbing accidents! Simpson was born in 1960, which meant he had been climbing about only 25 years. I've been hiking for 50 years and I've had only one friend killed while hiking, and she was killed by lightening in Corsica. There is obviously a tremendous difference in risks between hiking and mountain climbing.

The three climbers who died recently on Mt. Hood were experienced climbers, yet their collective judgment did not produce the right decision. All three were from out of state, which meant they had planned their climb months in advance. Compared to other peaks that they had summited, Mt. Hood did not appear to be much of challenge at 11,235 feet, and they only packed for a quick up and down despite the storm predictions. Had they lived locally, they would have postponed their climb for another weekend when the weather was favorable, but they weren't going to let months of planning and preparations go to waste, and they went for it.

Would Doug have attempted his climb if he knew the actual weather conditions? Personally, I don't trust weather forecasters with my life when I go to the mountains. There can be too many surprises. Today there were hurricane level winds in the Truckee-North Tahoe area, and these weren't in yesterday's forecasts.

Among my hiking friends I've observed that a few of them are compulsive, ignoring rain forecasts and going out when storms are raging. But there is a world of difference between going out into the rain and going out into a blizzard. My compulsive friends get soaked but they don't die. When a hiker/climber is killed during the summer, we consider it a tragic accident. When a hiker/climber is killed during the winter because of weather, we question the person's judgment. To experience the mountains is one of life's great pleasures, and it should be a pleasure, not a matter of life or death.

Doug Sr....your post is almost an exact replica of the type of situations we (as a professional pilot) are always on the lookout for. Rarely are aviation accidents the result of a single catastrophic error (except for structural/mechanical failures)..normally they are a buildup of events in the accident chain that lead to the terrible result. We are taught to attempt to recognize those events leading up to the accident and identify them as possible contributors to a future problem and interrupt that process from happening. The same thought process works for all activities that have dire consequences. I'm sure we've all been in situations on hikes or in the mountains where we get that feeling where you know you are doing something that could lead to a serious problem. With enough experience some people can manage those risks and objectively choose a path that balances risk and reward. For some (like me) I tend to err toward the conservative side and not even get to that 3rd, 4th, 5th link in the "accident chain". Fear is a great motivator..hehe..

And thanks to the original poster..great story..and I'm glad it all worked out.

Chris

As a professional sailing instructor, we go through the EXACT same accident chain process that Doug and Chris talk about. Isn't this an interesting process? Guess it must work.

In the medical field, in a crisis situation, we teach the first thing to do, is to take your own pulse....the concept being not to make a decision that makes things worse. Same concept.

I think that one reason that a group expedition is generally safer than a solo excursion, is that you have more than one person to examine the decisions as they are being made. I think it is so easy to get caught up in the moment, that one can put other possibilities out of mind.

In the California Mountaineering Club, to which I and a few other posters also belong, we require that people be skilled and experienced prior to joining, and trips through the club are not led, but are cooperative, in a manner in which any participant could be the leader, and all are self-sufficient other than shared gear. It really seems the way to go, when you start getting off of trails, and are not being led by professionals or the equivalent.

We've lost a few members over the years, but generally through objective accidents, not poor decision making.

In the late 90's we had a firefighter fatality that affected our fire department deeply. In a post incident analysis they interviewed all the firefighters who were in the fire building with the deceased firefighter. Every firefighter said they had a gut feeling that they should not be there but nobody wanted to be the first to speak up and say "this is bad, lets get out of here". Everyone was thinking it, nobody was saying it.

One of the many recomendations made as a result of the incident was to "trust your gut instinct".

I carry that philosophy with me into the mountains and onto rivers that I kayak. I have turned around on many climbs and walked around many rapids that were well within my ability just because it just didn't feel right.

Go with your gut.

CLOSURE:

Last Sunday, 6/10/07, I completed a successful day hike of the Whitney Main Trail. It was just a cruiser for sure (about 14 hours rt), but it was good to be on the mountain again. I had never been up in summer conditions before – what a wonderful treat in the warm sun and mostly clear skies (all of my previous ascents were in the snow months of Winter, early Spring or late Fall). Since my last misadventure on Whitney last December, I have been slow to recover health-wise (just began training hard again about 2 months ago), but have struggled even more with the psychological aftermath of that 4 day stay on the mountain. I questioned if I had lost my life long passion for mountaineering. Through much introspection and getting back out there in the mountains on my favorite hikes/climbs in the local mountains and in the Sierra, I find that the passion is still in my heart – even more so now. Wonderful outings with new found friends that I met through this message board have made all the difference. Thanks guys and gals….I’m back. I have come to recognize though, that over recent years I had drifted into a less than safe climbing style without realizing the change in my approach.

In the case of this December misadventure, due to a case of arrogance born of a lifetime in the wilds with things generally going as planned, I underestimated the challenge of dealing with rather harsh weather conditions and the effects of altitude while being in a debilitated physical state. Therein lays the crux: In recent years I have fallen prey to the syndrome of treating mountain safety as a “black and white” issue.

I have accepted risk of exposure to objective hazards (severe weather, rock fall, technical terrain, etc.) and the occasional subjective hazards presented by my own questionable decision making with an attitude of false invincibility. I constantly failed to consider the consequences of being physically impaired and faced with the same hazards. I had told myself that my experience, preparedness and ability would carry me through any difficulty, and if not, I would die. Wow. I have cringed when hearing of or reading about other climbers expressing this fatalistic view. Now I know that I was one of those climbers.

The trouble is that there exists a broad range of circumstance between instant death due to a fall or major catastrophe in the mountains, and the mild inconvenience of a blister or some bad weather. In this case, the classic “cascade effect” of a developing accident was apparent. Last December, I did feel that something wasn’t quite right when I reached Trail Crest and continued on toward the summit at a much slower pace than usual – but continued anyway (arrogance). I shrugged it off thinking that it was only the heavy winter pack. Then, when the complication of pulmonary edema (due to my own thoughtless lack of acclimatization) and a fall/knee injury entered the picture, my safety cushion was paper thin. No level of physical strength or mountain experience helps if you are unconscious on a snowy slope with your core temperature sinking fast. Yes, I was lucky and blessed to have stayed conscious and mostly by shear habit was able to protect myself with a bivouac on the ridge.

The average level Sierra storm added the last complication. Normally, such a storm, with visibility still sufficient to allow navigation on a route I know so well would just add some spice to the trip and make for a good high camp story to share with buddies. Many of us have experienced long periods of arctic weather up north or in the major mountain ranges of the world, and have learned the tricks of the trade. In my case, the tricks and endurance have always been dependent on my being healthy and unimpaired. Once I was physically impaired, my safety margin disappeared entirely.

To the point at hand, I have been forced to be truthful with myself and bring my climbing style into alignment with the methods I practiced when I first began mountaineering almost 34 years ago. Here is some of the new/old mantra:

1.) Watch my acclimatization to altitude. I now know that I am susceptible to HAPE.
2.) Purposely leave a larger safety margin in terms of equipment, clothing, route selection and reserve physical strength to accommodate physical impairment or worse-than-expected heavy weather or other objective hazards.
3.) Climb with partners more often to take advantage of increased group experience and the clarity of making important decisions through a broadened frame of reference (this one is easy since I have come to enjoy the company of like minded mountain folk so much).
4.) Especially in winter, watch the technical climbing (class 4+), and use protection even on class 3 routes if I am solo and conditions warrant extra caution (snow/ice covered rock, cornices, etc.).

I sincerely hope that all this long-winded stuff may help other climbers reconsider their own climbing style if they have fallen into the same habits as I did after long spells of good luck in the mountains.

Climb Hard, but be safe out there…..

Doug Forbes

Congrats on your summit, Doug. What a beautiful day to stand on the summit of Whitney! I enjoyed meeting you and also reading your post above. Your experience can help other hikers/mountaineers.

The best, MC

"Lessons learned are meant to be taught." m.c. reinhardt

Doug's original post is on page 1 of this multi-page thread. His survival in those conditions is amazing.

So glad you're here posting your thoughts, Doug. I have found myself that personal experiences make me much more cautious.

Thanks for posting your lessons learned. Glad to hear that you are back on track.