Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Imodium A-D vs. Wag Bag

Most people don't read the instructions. "Wag bags" aren't just trash bags, there's other stuff in there to use to eliminate the smell and leakages.

Taking immodium will stop you up, i teach an outdoors class and some of the other instructors do and teach it. However holding it all in often reduces performance- no big deal if you're on a beach stroll but for some the MT/MR will require as much effort as they can muster. Side effects for imodium/loperamide include
dizziness, drowsiness, dry mouth, constipation, rash, fever, abdominal swelling or pain, gas, nausea, vomiting.

For me, I'm blessed with camp colon too, but i think it's the dehydration that plugs up the works. But if i have to go, i'm going. If i want to look pretty and be concerned with people watching me squat i'll go to the mall.

-lance

Hmmmm...Damn, I forgot my WAG Bag, I guess I'm going to have drill through some rocks at Trail Camp to take a dump. What do I put the TP, which I did not forget. ;-)

Me thinks this is going to get really ugly come Labor Day.

MSR needs to invent a stove that burns on human waste without making your food taste like it was cooked with human waste.

With all respect, this is not a solution, it is the man being non-responsive to the citizens the man is supposed to serve. It's Whitney. It's not wilderness. (Ok, call it "wilderness", but it's not.) A real solution here will allow the tourons to conquer the mountain while providing an opportunity to provide education on the benefits of true wilderness. Don't get me wrong, I follow the rules, but there's already enough people trying to beat the permit system. If they cut quotas to a minimum, they'll need guardtowers to prevent entry. Better to solve the problem in some other way that meets the needs of the public, not the man.

The Wag Bag may smell if the ziplock seal is pried open by the pressure from expanding gas inside. There can be a gas expansion inside the Wag Bag from bacterial activity, heating, or reduction in outside pressure from an increase in altitude.

You might try squeezing the air out of the Wag Bag before you close the ziplock seal and check it once or twice a day. If it has expanded, open it and let the stinky expanded gas out, and squeeze the air out before you reseal it.

Like many of you, I have a drawer full of unused wags at home. Every time I've been on the mountain my system has shut down on its' own. I do however use natures immodium - cheese. It's tasty, full of calories, keeps well and stops things up nicely.

Not for me.

Cheese is one item I'll definitely avoid unless I want to spend time in the trees (with that !@#$%&&* wag bag in hand)!

I have to agree w/ Todd ... (not just because of the cool name.)
NOBODY like carrying poop ... but if we can pick up after our dogs, why wouldn't we do the same for ourselves? EXTRA ZIP_LOCKS and triple bag it!!! It's gross, but not as gross as stumbling across someone else's.

Peace,
...Todd Grace...

In my experience the Wag Bag and Reststop bags are not odor proof. Wrapping the burrito up in any number of additional plastic bags only helps a little. Foil bags would work better.

If you are so squeamish that you'd consider chemically induced constiplation simply to avoid the smell, consider taking an odor proof container instead. You can find Rubbermaid half gallon or one gallon plastic screw top jars for a few dollars. They are bulky but lightweight and air tight.

Be careful with the Immodium. I heard a story from a friend who was in Nepal with a group. A woman in the group was evidentially not pleased with the local hygiene standards and tried this trick for a couple of days. She ended up getting flown to a hospital with serious internal problems. Messing with your body sounds like a bad bad idea to me.

Also, I would echo concerns by some here about the forest service not being realistic. They can write master plans, post things on their website and come up with all the high-minded ideals they want, but many people will still chose to poop under a rock rather than carry a bag full of crap down the mountain.

Moreover, there is a precedence in other areas (Olympic National Park in WA) of having human waste disposal bins up high. IMHO, such a system at Whitney would do a lot to encourage use. Much more than posting a master plan on the FS's website.

Maybe they should issue MREs in addition to wag bags:

Why Do We NOT Recommend MRE's?

The Good, The Bad and The Ugly

MRE's are "Meals, Ready To Eat", which we are not too fond of. They're also called IMP's if you're from Canada. It's not because they're bad, they're okay, as far as they go, and for what they are intended for. But we do not recommend them for long term storage or survival food for several valid reasons, mostly because this is definitely not what they are intended for and they have some rather unpleansant side effects.

MRE's are expensive, considering their actual cost, even if you find a good "deal" (be careful!). A case contains only 12 meals, which at $50 (a fantastic deal) is $4.16 per meal. Hopefully, you got free shipping... if not, factor that in and divide by 12. At $65 a case, that's $5.41 per meal. The actual cost of MRE's is about twice as expensive as their counterparts.

MRE's are pretty bland, overall and don't offer a lot in the way of "taste variety" between the different meals. They're better then the old "C" rations issued to the military, but after a few years, they're downright "blah". Many advertise that they "taste great", which simply isn't true.

The shelf life of MRE's is substantially lower then freeze dried or dehydrated food, lasting only 5 - 7 years on average. "How Stuff Works" claims their average shelf life is only 3 years. But if exposed to high heat, like in the desert, the shelf life will drop to as little as 3 months. If you buy MRE's, you need to be certain they are fresh and not older stock.

MRE's can be damaged by freezing. This can cause the retort packaging to delaminate. Freeze dried and dehydrated foods aren't harmed by freezing.

MRE's are heavy. They're actually considered "low" in water content, but their weight is substantial for a single meal. For anyone having to carry these very long or very far, they're definitely not recommended. Freeze dried and dehydrated foods are much superior, due to their lightweight and compact size.

MRE's are actually quite bulky compared to freeze dried and dehydrated foods. Even "stripped down" to their essential packaging (throw away their plastic pouch, cardboard containers and anything else you don't want), they're still bulkier then their counterparts. And definitely heavier, even stripped down.

MRE's are low in fibre (which makes you seriously constipated, see the "ugly" below), and contain a relatively low amount of water for their actual weight. They're considered way too heavy for backpacking, although this is what the military issues to their troops when in the field. But you have to also understand that they're carrying 100 lbs packs... not something your average backpacker is willing to do.

Since no water is needed, many people think that MRE's are better then the water-requiring freeze dried or dehydrated food. Not so. To avoid serious constipation, you will need to consume plenty of water if you eat MRE's regularily. You'll need adequate hydration anyway, so drinking sufficient quantities of water or consuming some with your freeze dried or dehydrated meals is going to be necessary no matter what.

They do have a very high sodium content of about 1800 milligrams on average. They're also packaged in retort aluminum packaging. Aluminum has been associated with Alzheimer's Disease. They have a liner that is supposed to protect you from the aluminum layer.

The Ugly

MRE's eaten over a period of time will make you quite sick. They high in fats and low in fiber and have "something" in them to keep your from having regular bowl movements. Or it's just their low fibre content. Their high calorie content means that you can survive on just one per day, although you'd definitely not feel full all day.

One the really serious side effects of MRE's is that they will also "stop you up" rather badly. You will have a hard time going to the bathroom. In fact, it might be a bit serious and extremely unpleasant. This is a very widespread and common compaint about MRE's.

The following link is the "experience" you might have (warning, very graphic, don't read this if you're easily offended) from the The Dedicated Camper

I will stop the story at this point to tell you about IMPs. I have a background with Army Cadets as well as a lot of friends currently serving in the armed forces, so I am no stranger to Canadian IMPs. Just like American MREs, Canadian military food is ideal for camping and hiking -- it is pre-packaged and ready to eat, requiring no cooking nor even any water. Just open and eat. They are packed with calories -- one Canadian IMP contains enough energy to sustain you for one whole day. I had packed enough to eat two a day -- one for breakfast and one for dinner.

Anyone who has been in the military or read this site knows that IMPs and MREs pretty much stop your digestive system right in its tracks.

There at the base camp, the IMP did not go down easily. It caused a lot of cramps, gas, and general discomfort in my stomach. But because I was so worn out from the hike, I promptly fell asleep.

I woke up to the hot morning sun cooking me inside my tent -- not the feeling I needed to wake up to.

The hike that day was kept simple for my benefit -- we explored close to camp and came back for the evening. No mountain climbing today. Over the course of the day I regained my old composure, my appetite, and my strength by eating properly, although it was a fight to do so.

It was not until the third day that things started feeling heavy. Though IMPs were designed to make a person hold out under normal conditions, I really doubt they were tested for my circumstances. On that third day we made a long hike and discovered a really great glacial stream. It was getting close to thirty degrees Celsius outside (86º F), and the ice-cold glacial stream was welcomed with open arms and open Nalgine bottles. That is when I realized that the grogan beast growing in my stomach wanted to be birthed.

I let the group know, grabbed my toilet paper, and went off a ways from the stream so that I could do my thing. What I gave birth to out there was probably the largest and most discolored turd I have ever dropped. It was about eight inches long and equivalent in girth to a soda can. The thing that made it special: it was half-and-half colored. The first half was black, pitch black -- then it abruptly changed to a normal brown.

I am never really one to stare at my own work. I usually have a look and flush it away. But because this was in the bush, out in the open, and not going anywhere, I stared at it for a time, wondering if maybe I had some internal damage from being so sick.

I alerted my friends to my new child and expressed my concern. One of the guys said that the black color was probably my body's way of flushing out all the contaminants in my system after being so sick. Everyone else agreed, and that is where I let it rest.

The rest of my trip went normally. After that poop I felt infinitely better, even better than I did before I got sick. The IMPs did their work and kept me going through the rest of the trip. For me, the poop story ends there.

But this saga does not. You see, my perfectly healthy friend Pete was on the exact same diet I was. And the IMPs were doing to him exactly what they were supposed to do.

We returned back from the hiking trip and the day of rest passed. The next day, I asked Pete up if he gotten rid of his IMPs yet. Nope.

One week later he had still not gone.

We were on a trip to Vancouver, stopped for food in a city called Kamloops, when it hit. We had just gotten our meals and had started to eat when Pete abruptly stopped, looked at me, and uttered, "It's time." He got up and left the table. The dude was gone for about twenty minutes.

I had just finished eating my meal when Pete walked back to the table, his face beet red, laughing hysterically. I asked him what was so funny. "Go have a look for yourself," he said. I knew that whatever he had done would probably require us to pay and leave the restaurant immediately. So I decided to have a look before we made our exit.

Upon opening the men's room door, I noticed water on the floor pooled around the only stall in the washroom. I peaked around the door. What I saw amazed me.

My friend Pete is not a big guy -- maybe five foot two and 130 pounds soaking wet. This guy produced something that I can only equate to a NFL football-sized (and shaped!) turd. Not only that, but it had its own unique tannish-manila color to it. And, surprisingly for something that size, it was floating in water that was up to the rim of the toilet.

I started to laugh as I made my way back to the table. We had a good chuckle at the Godzilla turd that my friend produced and planned to make our exit. But we felt bad for the poor bastard who would have to deal with it. So we wrote "Sorry" on a napkin in black felt pen, took the napkin into the stall, placed it on the lid of the toilet, hoped he'd see the humor in the situation, and made our exit. Life went back to normal.

There's another "humerous" MRE poop story here (also graphic).

We've eaten quite a few MRE's and frankly, would rather have something else to chow down on. After several years, the MRE's we had were unfit to eat and we tried feeding them to our dog, which refused to eat them (beefsteak MRE), which was surprising. We had to toss them out. I simply do not store them anymore as part of our food storage program after trying out several dozen cases myself. Dehydrated and freeze dried food is much better, cheaper, lighter, more nutritious, and healthier.

There "one advantage" that we can find to MRE's is this - they're ready to eat. No cooking, heating or refrigeration required. And that is their intended use. A few meals won't do you any real harm, but are a lousy replacement for long term storage or sustained consumption.

For less money, less weight, less sodium, better variety and healthier alternative, and much longer shelf life, we definitely recommend freeze dried or dehydrated food over MRE's for long term storage, disaster planning, emergency preparations and survival needs. They are hands down the best option over all ALL food storage, including canned, frozen or "supermarket" foods.

that is a hilarious story; my experience with MRE's have always been extremely bad- i have gotten violently ill on the Whitney trail when i ate MRE's- dysentary style- so I think i will stick to Mountain House and protein bars. !

The only cool thing about MRE's are the tiny bottle of Tabasco that comes with them. At least they did when I was eating them in the early 90's!

Come to think of it, I might still have a teeny bottle around my apartment somewhere...

-Laura

Next: They will want to bring up there RVs.
I cant belive this conversation about POOP has taken up the board.

Ok Sorry to keep this conversation on the board, but i do think there are some relevent issues here. i just summited whitney via the MMWT yesterday (whoo hoo!) and unlike the first time I summited- my bodies digestive system seemed to shut down entirely! I drank what i thought was enough to drown me, but still I barely peed. Needless to say, there was no need to use a Wag Bag either. its been 3 days- i feel pretty bad, bloated, etc. Anyone else go through this? Any ideas of what i can do to be 'normal' again?

Any over the counter laxative should get things moving. Dulcolax tabs, Milk of Magnesia, Ex-Lax, all work. Fiber supplements will, but slower. Much faster (and less comfortable), magnesium citrate solution (Citroma).

But remember,

Serutan

is Natures, spelled backwards.........