Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Opinion Wanted - Outpost Camp vs TC for overnight

As I approach my overnighter in mid-August, I'm starting to wonder about the adviseablilty of spending the night at trail camp vs choosing outpost camp. I'm not an experienced backpacker and although I have been training hard, I know my limits. Also, I won't have a lot of time to get acclimatized. The chatter about the poor conditions at trail camp isn't very encouraging either. My thinking is to just hike to outpost camp, pitch the tent, hit the sack early then get up around 3:00AM and with only a daypack (and a headlamp), treat it like a day hike.

I would save 2.3 miles of heavy packing the first day and the same on the way down (which I understand is a lot harder than one would normally think). Whatever sights I'd miss in the dark in the morning would be caught on the way down.

I'd love to hear from someone who has done this.

Meckers,

Either way you'd be ok. Trail camp isn't that bad, there are some sites that are further from the trail, and ear plugs can take care of the rest of the noise. What time are you going to be starting your backpack? If you're starting early then i'd opt for trail camp, it'll make your summit hike and last day shorter. A few folks start late, 5pm or so, and head to outpost camp.

Why are you starting the summit hike so early? 3am could get you to the summit for sunrise btw. (around 6:15am for mid august)

-lance

Lance, thanks for your quick reply. I suggested 3:00AM just out of an abundance of caution. From Outpost Camp, the hike is about 7 miles and 4,000+ elevation so I’m figuring about 1.5 mph for the summit (4.66 hrs). Again, I’m assuming it will be a lot harder than I’ve ever done despite my training. I can start an hour or two later.

P.S. everybody, Happy Fourth!

You could still day hike up to Trail Camp from Outpost Camp the first day and get a little acclimation in as well. The only difference is that you would not have to lug your gear over the rocky section above Mirror Lake. You still would see that section of the trail in daylight and be primed for the hike back down the following afternoon.



You may wake up early anyway, so go if you are awake at 3 am, but don't sweat it if you get up an hour or two later. Above Trail Camp (12,000 feet) the altitude effects start kicking in so you may only go 1.0 mph up there.

Leave your options open.

4 miles is a very short backpacking day but 6 miles, +3,600' to 12,000' can be a real pain in the rear if your pack is heavy.

You may have less problems with AMS at OC but if you have not camped at that elevation you do not know for sure.

Getting a decent night's sleep at anything above 8,000' is difficult and you will adding in the anxiety of the morning's summit attempt. Therefore, I would not count on sleeping well wherever you spend the night.

I'm big on sunrise on the summit for more than a couple of reasons and this means starting at TC. You hike when it cool or downright cold, the whole of the Sierra lights up at dawn and you are off the summit before the storms on all but a few days a year.

Oh BTW, OC ain't much better than TC. It suffers from the same problems as TC for the same reasons, too many people in too little space.

Have a safe trip.

Moonscape or treescape? I love Outpost Camp. Especially since I lug heavy packs. But at Outpost you are still among the trees--aka shade!--and a refreshing waterfall and stream running through and around the camping area. Hikers at 3:00 in the morning seem oblivious to Ouptpost Camp, but I think that also occurs at Trail Camp. Since you are new to the experience, I recommend Outpost for breaking yourself in. Enjoy your trip!

Personally, I'd opt for the shorter summit day and stay at Trail Camp, as we did in 2001. We had spent two nights at Mammoth Lakes (about 8,000') with a dayhike up Glass Mountain (11,000') in between, so that helped with acclimation.

As far as timing your hike, I generally say 30 minutes per mile plus 30 minutes per 1,000' of gain. It took us about 5 hours from Trail Camp to the summit and we didn't really start slowing down noticeably until after Trail Crest (just under 13,000').

You may want to read my trip report under the "highpointing" pulldown on my WWW site.

Whichever camp you choose, take your time, enjoy the views and keep a weather eye out for building t-storms so you're back close to or at Trail Camp if anything blows up.

opps, i always mix up trail/outpost. I'm not sure why, after a few years of going you'd think i'd learn. Thx!

I'll second Alan's comment on the t-storms. Late summer is primetime for them. A few years ago we got a ton of hail at trail camp, around 1pm, people were just streaming off the summit after the lightning bolts started. And this was after a 100% clear skies at 11am.

good luck and happy forth to everyone!

-lance

have used both Outpost and Trail Camp.

since you mentioned short acclimatization and Trail Camp is 12,000 ft, I'd recommend sleeping at Outpost.

Old adage, climb high - sleep low. Harvey

Thanks everybody; good advice. I'll keep my options open. If I feel I can push on to TC, I'll do it. If not, I'll sleep at OC without any regrets. Traveling light from OC onward is pretty appealing.

No one has mentioned another alternative, BOTH OC and TC!

Hike the first day to OC, hike the second day to TC, summit the third day.

This gives you plenty of time to enjoy the views, and an additional day to acclimate to the altitude.

"Moonscape or treescape?" ...yeah, that pretty much sums it up for me. I've done Whitney twice and stayed at Outpost Camp on both trips. Makes for like a 15 mile day when you go for the summit. Sounds better than lugging all the camping gear up to Trail Camp, IMO. Plus, the views of Thor Peak to the north of the campground are so awesome, especially in the morning light!

Just comes down to personal preference and how fit you are.
Hope your trip is fun, whatever you decide on!

-Trent

If your plan is OC on day one and TC on Day 2, I'd opt for LPL. There are less people there and it equals the distance traveled both days. The other advantage of LPL is the day hikers won't be waking you up at 3 AM.

On my first summit trip, my group camped at Trail Camp and several years later we elected to stay at Outpost and made it to the summit the next day.

When we camped overnight at Trail camp, I didn't get much sleep but early the next morning we took off for the summit and I felt good and strong throughout the hike and ran the last hundred feet to the summit hut. It was a long ways back from Trail camp to the parking lot with a loaded backpack. The last mile to the parking lot felt like a hundred miles.

My second summit hike is a different story. Carrying a backpack to only Outpost camp was nice and we enjoyed the shady location with running water nearby. We slept early and took off for the summit while it was still dark and it was quite fun. The air was crisp, we did not require flashlights, did not need to drink as much water as during the day, and was feeling good when we arrived at Trail camp for a short rest to replenish the water bottles. After we got to the other side of Trail Crest, I was feeling a little slugish and after mile 10, I slowed down to a crawl and was ready to turn back but after an extensive rest that allowed me to drink lots of water and food, I was finally able to make to the summit. When we returned to Outpost, we packed up our gear, hiked back to the parking, and drove 7 hours back to the Bay area. We wish we would had stay overnight at Outpost after returning from the summit. I probably did not give myself enough time to acclimate so the summit hike was tougher and when we returned to Outpost camp, I should have used the camp site to stay another night instead of struggling back to the parking lot.

I like the earlier idea of camping at Outpost, hiking to a higher elevation then returing to Outpost for another night's rest before heading for the summit.

Bobk530:
15 mile summit hike + 4 miles with all your camping gear back to the Portal + 7 hour drive home ... holy cow! Thats one LONG day!

We always stayed one more night at Outpost, after the summit hike, then hiked out in the morning. Cheeseburger and fries for lunch at the Portal before heading home.

I just did Whitney for the first time last weekend. Six of us camped at Trailcamp and found it just fine. We also used what was left of the snow as "natures fridge" for some of our stuff.

Meckers,

I think you're low-balling the estimate from Outpost Camp to the summit by putting it at four hours. Did someone say 3 hours from OC to the summit? Wowa. Maybe running it. That's moving way quicker than me, anyway, and I'm a pretty experienced climber/backpacker.

I overnighted at TC a few weeks ago, and would recommend it despite earlier comments I made about the human waste and garbage (which there is way too much of up there, but sadly it's part of the game). While at TC, I took an informal poll of people at camp. Nearly everyone agreed it was 5 hours from TC to the summit. I did it in four (admittedly moving at a very conservative pace, since I was packing out to Portal that evening, making for a 16 mile day in all). Departed TC at 7:15am, summitted at 11:15am. It was about 3 coming back down. Maybe that's just me moving slow. But slow and steady wins the race on mountains!

The elevation at TC isn't that extreme, really no higher than most ski resorts in the Rockies. So if you can handle that you'll probably sleep fine there. In fact, you'll probably be much better acclimated for your summit attempt. I've heard that lots of day hikers move through OC early in the morning, which would annoy me. I made the decision to use TC and I was glad I did.

Incidentally, I asked a ranger in Lone Pine, "Do most people overnight at TC or OC?" He said, "Most people say they're going to stay at TC, but only make it to OC."

Anyway, my two cents. Good luck! Climb high and respect!

I have been to Whitney twice with my 12 year old. In order to acclimatize and reduce the risk for AMS, we backpacked the first day to Outpost, set up camp, then took a day hike to Trailside Meadows. I was able to sleep fine at 10,000 ft. The second day we went to Trail Camp early, set up camp, watched the snow come in on our last trip in mid-June, and generally just spent time lounging around and acclimating. I had trouble sleeping that night at 12,000 ft. Other than the sleep issue, no other problems except a mild headache now and then. We woke up at 5 am on summit day, up the switchbacks by 6 am and on the summit by 11 am. No real altitude issues other than the usual shortness of breath with exertion. Then back down to Trail Camp and off the Crest by 2 pm. Packed everything up and reached the Portal by 8:30 pm. A slow pace by many standards, but a reasonably safe and conservative climb for one that is not used to the altitude. Hope this helps with your decision. I don't think there is a completely right answer.

Meckers, I think there's been a lot of good advice on this thread. It may be a case of "Six Of One, A Half Dozen Of The Other". Whatever you choose, try not to worry too much about summiting and have fun.

P.S. If you can, you might want to sleep at Whitney Portal the night before you start.

Dryfly, there is a big difference between driving or a lift to altitude at a ski lodge, versus physical exercise to get here by hiking up. Hikings' extra workload increases the chance of AMS. And 12,000 ft is certainly high enough to cause trouble for some people, the official definition of high altitude being 5,000 to 11,500 feet, the definition of very high altitude being 11,500 to 18,000 feet, and extreme altitude above that.

There are some other versions of these descriptions, but this is from one organizations' altitude tutorial:

http://www.ismmed.org/np_altitude_tutorial.htm#goldenrules