Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Wag Bag instructions

I was hiking the main trail this sunday and walked past an un-opened wag bag laying flat on the ground with a huge pile of "human waste" on top. are the instructions really that confusing?

Kim, your commentary is pretty funny, but on a serious note I am getting sick of the wag bag issues. I have been quiet about it for quite some time, but it is getting ridiculous.

Do I like going in a plastic bag? Not really.

Is there a better system out there? Quite possibly.

The fact of the matter remains is that we are faced with a current situation and it is what is. Have some respect for the area and the people around you and use the bag. I have used it numerous times and although I have not enjoyed it, I have endured many more unpleasant things in my life. If you don't like the system that is in place to preserve a high-use area, then don't use the area, but please do not ruin it for others and the environment. I am so disgusted by the number of people that are trashing public campgrounds, endangering wild animals, and pooping all over the trail because they are unable to act mature and respectful.

I guess it is my own frustration with "the crowd" that is attracted to a real mountain that can be deadly, and it is approached with such a cavalier attitude. It is great to see so many first timers and seasonal hikers enjoying such a beautiful area and creating lifetime memories, but I'm starting to wonder if it is really worth the effect on the area. Please do not get me wrong, I am not against the diverse group of people with the summit on their mind. I was a newcomer to the Whitney area just a few years ago, but if you are going to head outdoors, please learn the ethic of being there and obey them.

I am not sure what the solution is. If you restrict overnight camping, then SAR will just be overwhelmed and people endangered on day hikes that out of their league. Obviously there is a lack of funding and staffing to police the area as well. I guess it ultimately comes down to education, but how do you teach people who are either too ignorant to learn or just choose not to.

Just to clarify, my post has nothing to do with Kim, but the repeated issue she highlighted. I really miss the Sierra since moving to the east last month, and it is depressing to hear how a handful of people are able to ruin such a beautiful area.

No, the instructions are easy to follow. Last week my friends and I camped at Trail Camp. There was a used Wag Bag sitting where we set up our tents. Then I walked around to find a private place to properly use my bag, and found FIVE used Wag Bags laying around. The other thread "Wag Bags Stink" is true. I'm still try to get that "smell" out of my backpack. I need to find a better way to pack the bag out.

Besides the trash problems down at the Portal and the unkept facilities, the wag bags seem to be the biggest problems that need addressing. From all the comments I've been reading, it's obvious not everybody on the mountain is using the bag correctly, or if they are, they are leaving them on the mountain. It's hard to believe there are so many irresponsible people out there.

Myself and 9 others are heading up on Friday. We plan to spend Thursday night at the Portal. I'm not looking forward to it. Overflowing cans, TP everywhere, lack of bear boxes, unkept toilets.......and now wag bags left on the mountain......My idea of pristine wilderness no longer exist.

I hiked Whitney about 7 years ago and saw none of these problems. The Portal was clean. Bears were around, but not hasseling anyone. Most of the other hikers were considerate. The solor toilet at trail camp kept the surrounding areas clean. There were people who were using the toilets as garbage cans. I'm not sure which is the worst of two evils here. Garbage in the toilet, or garbage and wagbags left behind rocks, or scattered across the hillside.....

I believe the majority of the people out there who are destroying our wilderness need policing. Obviously, they are too ignorant to be out there alone. If its too expensive to keep a ranger on the trail, maybe the only solution is to make the main trail a guided only trail. Individuals must pay a guide to take them up. I've been many places where this is done and believe me it does keep the place cleaner, less overused, and usually the people leave with more knowledge about the environment. A little education can go a long ways......

The worst part about it was how close it was to the portal,on the long swithbacks somewhere before Lone Pine Lake. I summited last month and used my wag bag on the 97th switchback. I walked all the way down with it in my hand! I was not going to put it in my backpack, & was not about to leave my special gift for some poor ranger to deal with. Im sure every one I pased remembers me & my cute army green purse!

NO SMELL - GUARANTEED

I have used wag bags extensively. If you add a one gallon Ziplock bag to the kit I guarantee you will have NO odor. The keys to having NO odor are...

(#1) Be sure to add the liquid as recommended in the instructions either urine or water. Better abit too much than too little. The gel it makes with the powder in the collection bag helps surround the contents.

(#2) Squeeze out any air and tie a knot on the collection bag. Place the collection bag in a gallon Ziplock freezer bag, squeeze out any air and seal it. Now place the 2 bags into the puncture resistant outer bag provided. (The ziplock style outer bags bags that come in the kits are unfortunatley almost always NOT airtight, hence the smell.)

As an experiment go ahead and seal the outer bag provided with a little air in it and squeeze it lightly. That air comes right out even with the seal zipped which leaves only the knot on the inner bag to contain the smell. The Ziplock bag will hold in the smell. If you are really scared add a 2nd Ziplock bag, I always get away with just the one.

Yes, it's a tiny bit of extra weight, however, your backpack will never be forced to remind you of what it has carried.

This is a very good point. The first time I used a Wag Bag, I never paid attention to the instructions. I just woke up in the morning and my first thought as I sat up in my sleeping bag was grab my wag bag and take it for a test drive, never reading any directions. My Wag Bag stunk on the way out and I thought these things are horrible. The next time out using one and reading the instructions about adding liquid made me wonder if that was the problem the previous time. From then on, I never had a problem with the wag bag smelling. The powder, kitty litter at the bottom is designed to reduce or eliminate the odor, as long as enough liquid is added to activate it.

How about carrying a few Wal Mart bags with you and put the used bag inside those? I think the problem is that people don't want the poop in and around their food even though the odds are there won't be contamination. It's just the thought.

Also another hiker on this board suggessted carried their used bags tied outside their backpacks. Seems like a good idea. If you don't want anyone to know you WENT, well everyone GOES! You gotta leave your modesty at home when you're on the mountains. The mountain and other hikers with thank you.

Since we have a small group headed out to CA next month for our first visit to Whitney, this seems like an excellent time to ask a couple of stupid questions:

1. Where do we obtain the wag bags when we get out there?
2. Can the wag bags be reused if you have to go more than once?

(The latter is my wife's question; something about being in the backcountry always seems to make her have to go. Normally she stands on one foot and then the other while I dig her a hole, but happily she's going to be on her own this time...!)

Thanks!

To answer your questions...

1. At the Interagency Visitors Center at no cost to you.

2. Yes, but here is not enough gelling agent.

Bring a few extra gallon ziplocks to double or triple bag the WAG bag.

1. At the Eastern Sierra Interagency Visitors Center when you pick up your permit.

2. Yes, it can be reused. The main bag is fairly large. You probably will want to bring along extra 1 quart plastic bags with a good zipper.

I've used the same Wag Bag more than once per instructions and without extra bags and without a problem. I suggest squeezing the air out before you seal them.

Although I didn't have a problem with critters chewing a hole in them, it's a possibility. So I would keep some extra ziplock bags separate until they are needed. Also, if a critter chews through the Wag Bag and if you want to use it again, you may need another plastic bag to put around the Wag Bag when you put it on the ground.

Yeah, it'so obvious that WagBags are not an optimal solution. I also like how the toilet paper in the package is tiny. I think the company that makes WagBags should have a "jumbo American size."

A friend of mine with celiac disease used high-dose immodium anti-motility drugs during our trip -- upon returning to the portal he used a magnesium citrate laxative to induce a mudslide. He spent 45 minutes in the portal restroom. This solution is effective but not elegant. In a way, it's like using your own colon as a WagBag. He also complained of gastrointestinal bloating and cramping during the descent.

We should model the Whitney waste management after Longs peak and Mt. Rainier. The idea to raise trail fees to $25 is brilliant, that's about a half a tank of gas.

RE: Mt. Rainier:

"If you must defecate while climbing, use "Blue Bags" to carry out human waste.

"Blue Bags" are available at ranger stations and high camps. They contain one clear bag, one blue bag, and twist ties. To use the "Blue Bag," defecate on the snow away from the climbing route and rest areas. Collect the waste using the light blue bag like a glove. Turn the blue bag inside-out and secure with a twist tie. Place the blue bag in the clear bag and secure with a twist tie. Deposit them in labeled collection barrels at Camp Muir, Ingraham Flats, Camp Schurman, Emmons Flats, below Camp Hazard at 7500 feet, the tunnel outside Paradise Comfort Station, White River Campground, Ipsut Campground and on Westside Road. DO NOT DROP USED BLUE BAGS IN TRASH CANS!

There is no ideal solution to the problem of human waste on the mountain. To maintain the best possible climbing experience, everyone must remove his/her own waste."

http://www.nps.gov/mora/planyourvisit/things-to-know-before-you-climb.htm

Also, some of our problems are not unique. My friend, Mike Gauthier, who is the chief climbing ranger on Rainier, wrote these things this week on his blog:

"Those climbing the Emmons Glacier need to be mindful of the food, gear, and trash that is being left behind on the approach. The Glacier Basin ranger has been finding quite a bit of discarded equipment, shoes, food, etc, which isn't so great for those families camping in the basin who aren't into climbing or the extra clutter/junk left behind. Also, the food usually gets ravaged and then becomes an attractant for the resident bear, who is starting to make people nervous."

"Camp Muir is drawing more attention lately. Like Glacier Basin, rangers have been finding trash and garbage in the public shelter (left by climbers/day hikers) which (of course) is not cool. "

So I guess things are the same all over.........

Ken,

I spoke to a ranger last year in GCNP who used to work at Ranier. He said that "Blue Bombs" could be found all over the mountain a snow field receded and the melt progressed. When I told him about Mt. Whitney going to pack it out he was highly skeptical of the program succeeding.

WB, that would be why I would not neccessarily point to Rainier as an example of what we should do at Whitney, as you point out.

What is somewhat more troubling, is that unlike Whitney, where there are a lot of uninformed and unskilled tourists walking up the trail, Rainier is a SERIOUS mountaineering adventure on the easiest route, so that people dropping the "Blue Bombs" are part of the mountaineering community, who should be absolutely aware of what they are doing. This is really sad.

I use a small dry bag, sea to summit is the brand name of the one I have to place the used wag bag in and then clip it to the outside of my pack. This keeps it outside of my pack and discreetly concealed.

First, I for one would be willing to pay a much higher trail fee for not having to use a Wag Bag. That being said I don't know what it costs to build and maintain the solar toilets at Trail Camp. Sometimes these things can be astronomical. It would be nice if anyone has any real data to share on what it all costs and what fees would have to be raised to in order to pay for it. What are you willing to pay? I would go up to $50, maybe more. The chance to climb Mt. Whitney is a once-in-a-lifetime deal for many of us. I know many of you go every year or other multiple times and if you love it that much, then you should be willing to pay for the privilege.
Second, I would further limit the number of people, especially day hikers from using the trail. Because the option of a day hike exists, too many inexperienced people (without any kinship or identification with John Muir) think they can run up to Whitney and it's a piece of cake. I'm talking about the neophytes that are wearing sandals, shorts (only), and don't think to carry rain gear, and are generally not ready for any adverse conditions. Before you protest about constitutional rights, I said "limit" them, not ban them. If you are serious about climbing the mountain, you plan ahead of time and participate in the lottery. If you can't go this year, you can try again next year. That's life in the fast lane.
M.F.

Annual Passes for those of us who spend too much time on the mountain. (Rainier does it this way, probably others.) (I don't have an opinion on whether higher fees are the answer to the Whitney "problems.")