Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Wag Bag instructions

Ken,

When he told me that I was shocked. I knew Ranier had a ratio of climbers to tourists. If they are having problem why would anyone in their right mind think the problems would not be worse here.

If you are entering the Whitney Zone from the north via the JMT, can you pickup a wagbag at the Crabtree Ranger Station? What can the JMT hikers do to be responsible citizens?

Two of us started at Horseshoe Meadows last August, and spent four days on the trail on our way to the Portal. Just past the Crabtree Ranger Station, along the JMT, there was a box of wagbags for hikers to pick up as they headed towards the Whitney Zone. Whitney Mike

I think they need to back up and re-think this whole wagbag situation for Whitney. If they don't, they'll either end up with trying to close or limit much of it, or they'll be banging their heads together trying to make people comply with something as unnatural as wagbags are. In the meantime the camps will stink and the bags will be found along the way, as they are now.

Sure, so it's supposed to be 'wilderness' and the specs for 'wilderness' don't include toilets. But being the highest peak as it is, there are going to be a lot of people from very ordinary backgrounds, who will be going up because it IS the highest, and a challenge. So it's a unique situation, and needs a unique solution, not something that covers normal wilderness areas. Our society and most others dictate a certain amount of privacy for bathrooms, and to expect people who have been in that situation all their lives to happily just crap in a bag, more or less out in the open, because the ranger told them they had to, is foolish; they will (and do) find other ways.

Tearing down the solar toilet, regardless of it not being an ideal situation, was a good candidate for bonehead idea of the century. Why not try to improve its shortcomings instead of thinking they're going to successfully pull this wagbag thing off?

So wake up, forest service; get together with the Clivus Multrum folks, who make some excellent products or other scientific people, put some effort into it, and see what they can come up with that presents a real, viable solution. Don't worry that it's designated "wilderness", it demands special treatment because of the unique situation. You're not going to successfully force such a varied group of visitors to do something so against all they've learned their whole lives...some will, some won't, and nobody wants to deal with the leftovers from the ones that won't.

Ideally, I suppose the wagbag is a cheap and simple solution...the only trouble is, it won't work, so they should quit wasting time trying to make it work, and find a better answer.

I don't have a problem with using a Wag Bag. People on the North Fork have been using it for years. Mt. Shasta has a system, Mt. Rainier has a pack out bag, and I'm sure there are bags on many other mountains too. The system isn't ideal but until they figure out something else I'll do it.

However, I think you make a great point. Why is Mt. Whitney even in the wilderness boundary??? It is so far away from a "wilderness" experience. I enjoy meeting and talking with people on the trail but I certainly will not call it solitude. Am I way off base to equate a "wilderness experience" with "solitude"? Why don't they take it out of wilderness and manage the area as such. Let everyone who wants to go up there go.

"Why don't they take it out of wilderness and manage the area as such."

This requires an act of Congress, signed into law by the President.

Doing this is opposed by all wilderness managers with whom I've ever discussed it. The reason is that there is a recognition that such bills are a political process. There tends to be "give and take", or "horse trading". What will you give me, so that I will give you my vote?

They recognize that there is a very real probability that other areas will be de-certified, or that other highly coveted things will be lost in the trade. They've apparently been burned enough times in the past.........

It is sad and ridiculous that someone would bring a Wagbag, Use the Wagbag, and then leave the Wagbag on the trail. I saw one just past trail crest last fall. They could put a $5 refundable deposit on wagbags, but any system like that is going cause more problems than it will solve. I'm sure these are the same people who throw trash out their car window.

Is $5 enough? I know of a lot of people who would gladly pay $5 to have someone else pack their s*** out. Unless they barcode wag bags, and then tie the wag bag to a permit, nothing will change. Look - even when the outhouses were there, people still did their thing less than the required distance from water, etc. etc.

The bottom line is there is a small percentage of the population that just doesn't understand that rules and regulations apply to them. I hate to be a cynic, but there will never be 100% participation. The rest of us need to understand that somehow, we will pay for their indiscretions. The only thing that we can hope for is a more enforcement, which means higher fees.

Bar code/register the wagbag and link them to the permit. That will be about the only way to encourage a high rate of compliance.

Although most of us on this board care about the environment, and espcially the Sierra, and do our parts, there are a MILLION idiots out there who just don't get it. Some is because of ignorance, some is because of apathy, but there are a ton of people on these trails who just don't get it.