Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Ursack failure

We had a marmot chew through our Ursack at UBSL last weekend. Quite a mess. Has anyone else had problems with Ursacks?

Hey Steve,

I'm sorry to hear your Ursack got chewed through.

I haven't used them because I heard of their shortcomings. At UBSL I use the old fashioned method of hanging food off one of the many large boulders. I've never had a problem with that method.

Hey Steve,

I had two ravens go to work on mine this past March at Iceberg Lake. They weren't able to get to my food, but they put a quarter size hole in the bag and the plastic liner.

I contacted Ursack and they said to use masking tape and seam grip to repair and it did not weaken the integrity of the bag. I am guessing by what you wrote that yours is beyond repair. I believe the bags are only good for bears and other animals with blunt, rounded teeth and pretty susceptible to small animals or others with sharp teeth. I made the mistake of leaving my Ursack tied to a rock on the ground thinking it would be invincible, even though I thought twice about hanging it. From then on, I have always used Kurt's approach and hung it off a boulder and now the birds and marmots can't mess with it.

The problem with the Ursack is that if you dont tie the mouth tight enough, bears can still get into the sack.

according to the rangers, this is considered a failure in the field and if this continues, then ursacks will be banned from the wilderness!

BE CAREFUL! I WANT TO USE MINE STILL!!!

I spoke with a ranger at Crabtree Meadows who reported several 'faliures' with the ursack. If the bear gets a food reward, that is considered a failure and jeopardizes the conditional approval status of the ursack. I agree, it is difficult to tighten the end enough to where there is no space for a bear to get at the plastic bag inside especially if the bag is full such as at the start of a multi day trip.

I CAN'T BELIEVE IT FAILED. WHATS A GOOD ONE TO GET INSTEAD?

The clear plastic BV4000, but I understand the the older models also are prone to fail and the new ones have some improved 'nib' fastener that is better. Or the heavy black Garcia model which seems to be failsafe. There is one really light, hard sided one, can't remember the name offhand (bearikade??), but it costs about $250.

If anyone wants to know about some conditiuonally approve bear canisters, i advise you go to Sierrawildbear.gov. they have the most up to date info on bear canisters including the ursack.

Thank you WildKC for your helpful information!

Actually, Sierrawildbear.gov IS the agency that approves, or disapproves containers.

And I hear "through the grapevine" that there are failures of the Garcia, also, and a subcontractor is making new lids to make them bombproof again.

I'm the president of Ursack. Steve Larson has already emailed me about the marmot problem and I have responded, but I wanted to address some of the issues raised by others. Scott L (in this thread) has it pretty much right: we design Ursack for bears, who have strong jaws and dull teeth. Rodents are just the opposite. We could design an Ursack for them, but it would cost twice as much and be much less effective against bears. Our current approved Ursack, the S29 Hybrid, is made of the same Spectra fabric that SIBBG tested extensively in 2004--including with marmots. Even without an aluminum liner, no bears or marmots were able to tear it open. I have asked Steve Larson if he knows for sure it was a marmot, because in our experience that is very very rare. We have had issues with other rodents, but mostly in other parts of the country.

The approved Ursack S29 Hybrid has not had a single product failure of the fabric or the liner. There has been one incident we know of this year in which a thru hiker failed to cinch and tie the top correctly and a bear got his food. I assure you it is possible to cinch the top of an Ursack completely so that there is no opening. Instructions are under FAQs on our website and are also sent with email sales confirmation to our internet customers.

We have had several reports of bears attacking the S29 (with and without aluminum) this year and in NO case has the bear gotten a food reward.

It is really critical to Ursack and to all other bear canister manufacturers that you report only information about which you have first hand knowledge. SIBBG disapproval can literally put any of us out of business. If the ranger at Crabtree Meadows has information about S29 Hybrid failures, I would like to hear about it--but as far as I know he/she is wrong. We stand 100% behind our warranty, and as a result we usually hear about any problems.

If you have questions, please feel free to email me directly at info@ursack.com. Thanks.

Tom Cohen

Tom, thanks for writing! It's always good to hear from "the horses mouth".

I've used one of the original yellow Ursacks for a number of years, outside of the restricted area, and it has always worked for me. I've used the newer versions IN the restricted areas, and always done fine. I'm a supporter of the products.

Tom,

Thank you for your prompt response to my email, and for your obvious desire to stay on top of field experiences by participating in this message board. I've written up the details of the incident as you requested. For those on this board who are interested, here it is:

My Ursack was compromised by an animal some time during daylight hours on Saturday August 4, 2007 in the vicinity of Upper Boy Scout Lake, which is near Mt. Whitney in the Inyo National Forest at an elevation of approximately 11,500 feet. The Ursack had been cinched tight with the drawstring, and the slider all the way down against the fabric. An overhand knot was used to back up the slider. When the bag was found, no evidence that the knot or slider had failed in any way was found. No aluminum liner or odor barrier was used. The bag was left on the ground, and was not tied to anything (my understanding of INF regulations is that Ursacks are not to be tied to trees or shrubs for fear of damage to vegetation). We talked to a ranger the next day, and he was quite interested in our story. The ranger examined the bag, took a few notes about the circumstances of the incident, and took a couple of photos of the bag.

Although we did not witness the incident, we concluded that it was a marmot that was responsible for the damage for the following reasons:

1. The bag was full with approximately 5 pounds of food. Drag marks leading from where we left it to the vicinity of where we found it indicated that whatever animal was responsible was large enough and strong enough to drag the bag approximately 100 feet, the last 15 feet of which was through willows.

2. The only other animal large enough to have dragged the bag in that fashion would have been a marten, which are exceedingly rare in that area. Martens are carnivorous. The food that was consumed in the bag consisted of rice, bagels, and sesame sticks. All other food was either sampled or completely ignored. We had a couple bags of ready-to-eat food containing meat in the bag, and at least one of them had been chewed, but little, if any, of the contents had been consumed.

3. Although there are mice and chipmunks in the area, the hole that was chewed in the bag was far larger than those I have seen chewed by smaller rodents.

For what it's worth, my wife and I saw what I now assume would have been a marten at Trailcamp a couple years ago. Was bounding across the snow very quickly. Reminded me of a ferret. Had a long, cylindrical body and arched it's back as it hopped/ran. We thought it was a weasel. Definitely was NOT a marmot or a squirrel...

In June of this year we did another mult-day hike on Whitney again. Left our Ursack (w/aluminum liner) out on the ground every night and all day at Trailcamp on summit day w/the usual contingent of marmots, chipmunks, and mice lurking around. If anything even tried to get into it, they didn't leave a mark.

I saw a Marten a short distance below Upper Boyscout Lake earlier this year. It was my first time ever seeing one in this area.

I think the two testimonials to marten sightings are evidence of their rarity, at least in the Eastern Sierra. In 30+ years of hiking and climbing on the East side I've only seen one. Beautiful animal.

> the last 15 feet of which was through willows.

That's curious. I thought marmots liked the wide open spaces rather than willows -- at least that is where you always see them.

Edit: ...That is: burrows that open to wide open spaces. It seems like a predator could easily hide in bushes before an attack.

Steve,

They live underground, hardly wide open space.

I'm betting it is a pine marten. We had a report of pine marten damage to Ursack a few years ago--although I don't remember what part of the country it was in. As I said in my earlier post, I don't ever recall problems with marmots.

What style of Ursack was the bag in question? Was it the "approved" S29, green? Or was it the older, yellow one?
Also, does anyone know if the little propane/butane fuel cannisters need to be put in bear cans or ursacks too? Do bears smell the gas and associate it with food? What do folks do with their gas cannisters when sleeping? Thanks