Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Is it just me...

Is it just me, or has Whitneymania taken over in the North Fork? I don't go up there in the summer much, but I ventured up with a friend last weekend, and was kind of appalled at the fact that everyone seemed fixated on Whitney, as if that were the only reason to be up there. Many of them didn't belong on the MR, which makes me wonder if the FS is looking at the spillover effect of quotas on the main trail. We saw several incidents waiting to happen.

Lots of people are fixated on Whitney. Just look at the number of people on this board. No place in the Sierra except Half Dome has close to the numbers of people that hike Mt. Whitney.

How many people did you see up that way, and (just curious...) what sort of incidents?

Steve, I think Whitneymania has existed for at least 8 or 9 years. Sadly, it exists for many people for reasons that have little to do with the love of hiking.

Now a fair amount (or more) of the people on the main Whitney trail are there just to bag to peak as a "trophy." Just to do it to sort of cross it off their list of accomplishments. Some of these types probably never hike again in their lives. I'm not criticizing these people, but their presence on the mountain takes up permit space and trail space. They are a main contributor to "Whitneymania."

I trace Whitneymania back to an article in Travel magazine from 1997 or '98 where they listed " 50 Things You Simply Must Do Once in Your Life." Summiting Whitney was on that list, as well as 49 non-hiking things like "seeing the Taj Mahal." The Travel channel also did a show about this and showed Whitney. This brought Mt. Whitney to the attention of tens of thousands of non-hikers who were motivated to do it for non-hiking reasons.

There are far more beautiful hikes in the Sierras, more scenic and less crowded. I wish the people who train for a couple of months to do Whitney and never return would sample some of the other trails in the Sierras.

Just to underscore the above, we hiked Whitney on Monday. About 4 miles in we saw a couple resting. The man was carrying their gear (or whatever they had) in a suitcase--like they were headed for an air plane. No packs, just a suitcase.

On the way down, we saw them about 3/4 of the way up the switchbacks above Trail Camp, now having ditched the suitcase somewhere. We asked them where they were headed for the day and they said "we still plan on going to the top." It was about 2:00 or 2:30 at that point.

We ran into a ranger coming up and let him know about the couple. He said it was humerous, and that everyday "there is someone like that." He said in most instances they figure things out and retreat. I mentioned we had concern because they were moving up the mountain without any overnight gear at a very slow pace. He agreed that was a potential problem and said they would be on the lookout for them.

Weather was good, so I assume the couple was ok. But it would not take much to put them in great jeopardy. Clearly these folks were not hikers and unaware of the risks.

There were probably about a dozen people at both UBSL and Iceberg when we got there. We ran into at least 15 people on the way out.

The "incidents waiting happen" were things like the guy in flip flops intent on doing the MR, and a party we encountered on descent. There was a couple at the notch that asked us if there was a way to the top that didn't require climbing. We directed them to the traverse, but they were making very slow progress. That was just before 6:00 pm. A little after that we found the other half of their party--two guys looking tired and scared and moving very slowly up the lower chute. We tried to talk them into descending, but they insisted on going up. Their plan was to summit, and then descend to Trail Camp and rendezvous with some friends doing the main trail (we also ran into them around 5:30 pm on the summit). It just seemed like they were in over their heads, and were up there very late in the day. They probably got through OK, but I hope they had headlamps, because they were hours from their destination.

It wasn't all bad. We met a nice couple at Iceberg who planned on doing the East Buttress. They were kind enough to let us stash our climbing gear at their camp so we wouldn't have to carry it all they way back up from UBSL the next morning. And there was a group of four who came down the MR Sunday morning as we were retrieving our gear that obviously had their act together.

The Whitneymania thing became really obvious when everyone we talked to on the way out asked us if we "made it", without giving the slightest indication that they thought there was anything else to do up there besides the MR. I know that my opinion isn't necessarily shared by the majority on this board, but I think that MR is a miserable climb when dry. Even as a descent route I find it rather unpleasant. I can't imagine actually climbing it under dry conditions. Ugh.

I guess I find myself somewhat resentful of the fact that quotas on the main trail, coupled with Whitneymania, make it hard to get a permit on the NF for those of us with other plans. I know they have a right to be there--it's their public land, too. But honestly, I wish some of them would find somewhere else to go, some place more appropriate for their skill level.

Candace,

There is more than grain of truth about what you are saying. I spoke to some forest service volunteers at Little Lakes Valley who told me whenever there is a article in a major magazine the crowds explode at LLV. They cited two Sunset Magazine articles years apart.

This past spring the Orange County Register ran a series on Mt. Whitney that most likely increased the traffic from that area.

The MR will beckon those with a sense of adventure but not necessarily the skills and gear required to do it. Just like those who head up the MMWT during the shoulder seasons with ice axe and crampons and no skills.

So many accidents waiting to happen and so much time for them to occur.

I must admit I agree with WB and Candace up to a point. I know that general backpacking/backcountry travel has been down in Yosemite in the last 8 years although Half Dome is the one exception there. The mid 80's to late 90's hiking boom sprung a leak and many trails now are traveled below their daily quota.

I beleive the popularity of the recent books, films and documentaries on Mt Everest and other mountaineering destinations has romanticized the adventures of climbing. This has lured many novices to the hills. They are supported by the abundance of new gear, ease of information, and the plethora of sports products from gels to energy bars and sports drinks. Hey if all this stuff is out there, it can't be that hard to do, right? I expect this phenomena to wane as well.

One area of disagreement would be the notion that "Whitneymania" has led to a run on permits. The statisitcs Steve C has been putting forth leads one to believe that the mania is waning. With 25 to 30% of permits going unused, maybe the mania is just that, excessive excitement and enthusiasm that subsides quickly once reality sets in.

But I would also argue that the Whitney experience can inspire some to further pursue this sport. After all, there are several regular posters on this board that seem to have develop a mania of their own for hiking, backpacking and mountaineering.

Regardless, the couple referred to above and photo-captured by Bob R. in another thread is evidence that the potential for disaster is there. I applaud those who saw them and alerted the Ranger and others so that awareness was created about them. I think them somewhat foolish but who am I to say they can't give it a try.

candace, i think you touched on my thoughts on the matter fairly well.

last year, i had a friend that was putting together a trip to do a 2 day summit of whitney with some friends, and as he knew i was an avid backpacker, he asked me to join. he was surprised to hear that i was not interested! i'm not much of a peak bagger as much as i am interested in the long haul and being out in nature for days on end. plus i was very aware of the problems/dangers of trying to whitney too quickly, and i probably wasn't in good enough shape to do acclimate properly. so i declined.

luckily for me, their lottery bid was denied, and they were forced to pick an alternate route. they settled on doing the high sierra trail, and i was much more excited about taking this trip with them. it worked out great, and i think i stayed true to my intentions because my least favorite day was the last day. sure being on the summit of whitney was great, but i prefer the seclusion of the wilderness. from guitar lake to whiteny portal, my hike was shared with many, many others. it definitely felt more like a tourist trap than the icing on the cake. i half expected an observation deck and kodak representative taking group photos up top. i overheard two girls who had just reached summit high fiving, exhausted, and quoting their 'times' to each other from their stopwatches. i also passed a couple at trail crest that were beside themselves because they were so exhausted. the woman was in tears and angry at our group for having so much energy left (i was whipped). it really sank in to me during those points that everybody truly does hike their own hike, and for different reasons. i can't expect everyone to have the same motivations as myself...

this is not to say that whitney is without its beauty, which was obvious the moment we arrived at guitar lake and gazed upward, but i think that Whitneymania, as it were, lessened my experience somewhat. I know that's a snobby thing to say, and i realize that everyone with a permit is allowed equal opportunity as me to be out there...but there it is anyways.

what he said.

This guy passed by me at a little before 8:30am below LBSL. He asked a few questions, one of which was "Do you think I'll make it?" My response was "You better start moving fast." I'm not judgemental. It may have been that this guy was some hot-shot climber looking to tan his feet.

I do get a little bothered by the fixation on Whitney, though. A couple of people (including Flip-Flop) looked at me like I was a failure because I was coming down the NF and had not summited Whitney. If they took the time to learn a little, they'd know there's a heck of a lot more to that drainage than Whitney.

WOW !!! I can't believe that anyone thinks that they have the right to question who deserves to take up space on Whitney. I also hate that snobby elitism attitude that qualifies who is a "real hiker" and who should have the right to climb Whitney. I am sure that I wouldn't fit your criteria as a "real hiker". I climbed Mt. Whitney this summer as a part of my cancer survival. Should we set up a commitee of "real hikers" who will approve those who meet their standards of who should be allowed to climb Whitney?
I strongly believe anyone who wants to attempt Whitney for whatever reason be allowed that opportunty especially if they obtain a valid permit.

Give me a break, I didn't write anything of the sort, nor did I exhibit an elitist attitude. Thank you for so thoroughly and masterfully misinterpreting and misquoting my post. Really amazing. I guess you didn't notice that when I wrote "real hiker" I put the word "real" in quotations, thus denoting that there is no such thing as a "real" hiker.

The point of my message was obviously to show that Whitneymania exploded amongst people who decide to hike Whitney in order to cross it off their list of achivements. The idea was suggested in a non-hiking magazine and picked up on by other newspapers and media sources. If that floats their boat, so be it, I don't question their motivation. The end of my message lamented that many of these non-hikers don't usually bother to continue hiking in more beautiful venues than Whitney.

Whitney is special and unique. It is the highest point in the continental United States.That is what qualifies it as a desirable hiking goal. You should not assume that someone hiking Whitney is looking for a wilderness experience. Regardless of why someone hikes Whitney they are intittled to that quest regardless if they ever hike again.

Again here is your quote:
"I'm not criticizing these people, but their presence on the mountain takes up permit space and trail space. They are a main contributor to "Whitneymania."

Did you not say that they were taking up space? Whose space? Yours? Real hikers?
I think your distain for Whitneymaniacs came through loud and clear regardless how you choose to spin it afterwards.

Did you say 'baggage check in is that way' pointing towards the portal. You can't protect people from their own stupidity.

Hi Candace,

I must admit I sort of have Whitneymania. I've climbed it twice in the last four years and woke up one morning in early summer wanting to do it again. Now I'm trying to get in good enough shape for next year.

I've done a few other backpack trips in Yosemite in the distant past, but would really be interested in what your recommendations are for other beautiful Sierra hikes -- like day hikes or maybe one or two nights out. From reading this message board quite a bit, I know you hike a lot and probably could recommend some good ones. I'd be interested in something really beautiful with less altitude change. My husband and I are also thinking of hiking part of the Tahoe Rim next summer at the south end.

I hope this is still considered to be on topic. Thanks.

Adrienne

I would echo hvydrt's comment from the Wotans Throne TR thread.

I climbed Whitney for the first time 35 years ago this month and I carried my "stuff" in a rolled (lengthwise and over my shoulder) cloth sleeping bag. (I had backpacking gear, but my companion did not. Since I was wearing a back brace at the time, and couldn't carry a pack, my companion carried almost all of the gear up in my backpack.) We made the summit just fine.

Not everyone prefers to (or needs to) look like Ed Viesturs on their way up and some do pretty outstanding things in spite of it.

The weather beyond Friday afternoon was bluebird, so if they listened to a weather forecast, they would have known that that did not have to be a concern.

Adrienne,

For an absolutely beautiful southern Sierra day hike it is hard to beat Bishop Pass. A lot of people know that, so the trail gets a lot of use. But if you wait until after Labor Day and can go mid-week it won't be crowded. Brainard Lake is also nice and less crowded.

But let's face it, there are no "secret" beautiful places left in the Sierras. There's too many of us looking for the same thing. I’m not even sure what a wilderness experience is anymore unless a person is able to get far enough away so they will meet at most a few people a day. When I first hiked the JMT it was like that: Maybe one other group of hikers every few hours; sometimes less. I once did a 3-week solo in the Sierras and hardly talked to another person the whole time.

Candace, I respectfully disagree with you.

My first backpacking experience was a "Whitney summit bag" and I have no problem with that. After my first trip, I told friends about it and encouraged them to "bag the summit" as well. I do enjoy other hikes and outdoor activities in a variety of places outside of the Whitney area, but when I go to Whitney it is for the purpose of going up to 14,49whatever it is at the time.

I agree that there are many more beautiful places than the portal trail or the MR, which is why I don't understand your point. If you don't care about going to the summit, and you believe that there are other hikes that are better, why would you be on the trail that you know is going to have tons of people on it that are taking up your space?

I think it's great that Whitney is so popular with the "bag it once" crowd. If it wasn't that way, the whole area would still be nothing more than what's at the end of that weird stop light intersection on the way to Mammoth for me.

People that wear flip flops or carry their gear in suitcases are all over the place and that's not going to change. People will always be doing things they aren't prepared for. The amount of people on this trail is quite often the only thing that keeps them alive. If some magazine listed a more remote peak as the "thing to do before you die," unprepared people would still go, but there would be no one to alert the rangers, or suggest that it may be time to turn around.

Ah, BurtW, I respectfully disagree. There are many places in the Sierra that see very little traffic. I have my own set of places where I go, varying with the season, that sees very little traffic. Are they "secret"? No. Some are written up in guidebooks, some are obvious places on the map, some involve peaks, some have nice lakes or streams.

Less on the Eastside, due to limited access, but there are still some.

For example, the western Golden Trout Wilderness area. I went on a trip this late May, on one of the main trailheads. Three days, 18 miles, 3,000 gain. We saw no one, other than people working the trails. One month later, a boy scout group inquired about the trail, and they referred them to me, as they had issued no permits for the area other than mine! Nice folks, who had a nice trip.

Trip description, report, and pictures;

http://www.outdoorsclub.org/PastTrip/PastTripDetail.asp?id=13899&leadername=Ken+Murray

In fact, there was another group out in the general area last weekend, and they ran into no one in 4 days, except the trail crew that I often work with!

http://www.outdoorsclub.org/PastTrip/PastTripDetail.asp?id=14630

And who here has ever heard of Mountain Home State Forest? One of the most amazing places I've run across in the Sierra. Great campgrounds, Sequoia groves, locals only use it, free.

No argument. My suggestions were for trips that can be done as dayhikes and your examples are all overnighters. I'm glad there are places where a backpacker can still find solitude.