Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Ice axe: with or without a leash?

Thanks for the info Kurt. I have minimum experience with an ice axe. My question is, lanyard or not on the axe? Thanks for the help.

Ron

Hi Ron

You ALWAYS want a leash or lanyard on your ice axe. That guy needs to be attached to you. If you slip and fall the last thing you want is to lose your ice axe.

Paul

Well, I wouldn't agree with that 100%. Agreed that if you fall, you want your ice axe. But during a fall, having it attached by a leash is unlikely to let you regain control, and it just ensures that a pointy object stays very close to you. You need to have a grip on it.

I use a very lightweight bungy cord on my axe to prevent from dropping it while I'm just standing around.

I knew as soon as I typed the word ALWAYS I'd hear from somebody who thought otherwise!

Agreed that a sharp and pointy axe bouncing around you as your falling is not ideal but think of the alternative!

At least you have a chance of regaining control of the axe. If it's not attached you don't get the chance!

As stated, this is not an issue without controversy. Years ago, I scanned a couple of things from of my copy of Lou Whittaker's Memoirs of a Mountain Guide. You can read what he says here: Lou Whittaker on ice ax leashes

Since then, I read of an incident where the falling climber managed to pierce his ice ax entirely through his thigh. The mental image of him cartwheeling thus down the slope is vivid. Another was particularly bloody, although I have forgotten the details. I think the person got speared in the abdomen. It is likely that these were in the AAC's Accidents in North American Mountaineering, but I am too lazy to dig through my past issues to find them.

All of this is to emphasize that, while there is danger if the leash is not tethered to you and you lose it in a fall, there is danger of a different kind if it is. As I age, and my confidence in having the strength to arrest a serious fall diminishes, I have come to the following policy. I have always traveled with my ax untethered, and will continue to do so. I will attach the leash if I encounter a section where losing it in a fall would likely result in serious injury or death. But I will leave it untethered if a fall would merely result in inconvenience. It is particularly silly to have it tethered when climbing a gentle slope that has a good runout not too far below.

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Clarification: I have always advocated not attaching the leash, as Lou Whittaker writes.

Now, as I stated, there are times when I have it on my wrist. Emphasis: "on my wrist." I feel somewhat confident that I can regain control quickly if I lose my grasp and it is attached to my wrist. As a matter of fact, this has happened to me while glissading. Attaching it by a longer leash to one's harness came into vogue when ice climbing became popular. That is something I would never do.

For what it's worth, I believe that wrist straps were first invented to let the ice ax dangle freely when you came to a rock section and needed the use of both hands.

Interesting opinions coming from a couple of respected veteran climbers. I guess it ultimately comes down to personal preference to leash or not to leash.

To illustrate the other side of the coin, there were two well known incidents, in recent years, where one climber was seriously injured and another killed here in our local CA mountains. Both because they didn't have an axe to arrest their fall. In both cases they carried an axe but the axes were not leashed at the time of the falls.

For now I'll continue to take my chances with self injury and "leash up"!

Although I can understand and agree that opinions vary as to the value of leashes being used, I'm not sure I see what you're saying about the two you say were killed. If you fall and have a grip on your ice axe, you can use it to self-arrest. If you fall and don't have a grip on the axe, it's not likely IMHO you're going to gather up the leash and regain grip on it properly to then self-arrest while falling down a mountain.

I think everyone is arguing whether it's better to let the axe flail, or to not have it attached at all. No-one, to my knowledge, is arguing that the point of having it attached is to try to somehow regain the use of it while falling.

My 1 1/2 cents.

Cheers,
Jeff Long

A few years ago, I attended a basic snow and ice class. The instructor provided rationale, and recommended against leashes. On the final day, one of the participants decided to use a leash while practicing self-arrest on a moderate slope. After rolling the wrong direction and catching the spike, he began a series of cartwheels. He was struck numerous times as the ax flailed around. A final body slam landed him on the axe. As we worked our way toward him, we all thought he was kabob. Fortunately, he was just bruised and battered. This incident confirmed my decision to go without a leash. Results are not typical, and your mileage may vary.
Jim Glaser

Thanks everyone for the responses. While asking some experienced climbers I hike with on occasion, none use a tether, they brought up a good point. Is there any stories out there where someone gathered in their axe during a "big" fall? I think I'll go unleashed.

Thanks again everyone for your opinions.


Ron

I find it interesting that my first ice axe came with a leash that could not be removed - attached by a metal ring that slides up and down the shaft. I don't see axes with built-in leashes anymore. The axes I currently use do not have leashes.

Years ago when most downhill skis still had leashes, many resisted going to runaway brakes. A friend had a ski come off on a small jump, and the leashed ski whipped around a sliced his thigh open - maybe 3 inches deep. Thankfully it didn't hit the artery, but did ruin the rest of the day.

Ok, I'll throw my two cents in. I do usually tether my ax with a longer leash hooked onto a carabineer attached to front of my harness when climbing or traversing. I have rationalized two reasons for doing this. 1. Avoid losing the ax if I somehow drop it while switching hands, handling rope, etc. 2. If while climbing or traversing I slip, I bury the shaft and in the event I cannot maintain a grip on the handle during a fall the leash will hopefully stop the fall. I do not use a leash while glissading for the reasons outlined by others on this thread.

I should clarify. I don't do technical climbing with an ice axe. It's class 3 or less. I still have the axe with the leash, but use that axe rarely, when I feel I need a heavy axe.

I haven't thought about leashes until now, but generally I would use the leash if an unarrested fall would hurt more than being impaled on the axe. This is assuming I could regain control of the ice bouncing at the end of the leash.

My last unplanned arrest was what spinefxr said - I plunged the shaft in vertically as the snow under my feet gave way. That was with an unleashed BD Raven Pro, and I never felt I was going to lose my grip on the axe.

YMMV.

The issue with downhill skis was not personal injury but injury to others from runaway skis. Leashes make the skier subject to the risks of his or her own bad luck or exceeding his or her own abilities. It's a shame your friend got hurt, but it was your friend's choice to jump. Brakes are better than nothing, but only a little. And it's not only downhill. I saw a telemarker fall in the bumps on the face of 3 at Mammoth and break a leash. Those telemark skis pick up speed pretty well too.

Another change in the marketing of ice axes is the lack of stocking in stores (REI and A16 in my area) of the lengths appropriate for snow travel. Unfortunately, the X-Games have only popularized vertical climbing with no equal time for snow travel. In snow travel you may spend as much time going downhill as uphill. Walking down a freezing 30 degree slope with a 60cm ice ax (I'm 6'1") that I can only place well behind me makes for slow travel or no self protection. It is also tiring to cut footholds downhill with a short ax, and even worse wearing a pack. Unfortunately, this is the situation for those whose experience on freezing snow begins on their descent of the Whitney trail. There are certainly experienced ice climbers who may choose a short ice ax (not climbing tool) for some of their purposes, but the general public in the stores doesn't seem to be well served.

Dale B. Dalrymple
dbdimages.com
Sierra Crest 2008 Calendar http://lulu.com/content/1167331

Hi Jeff

To clarify my previous post, in my opinion, had the two accidents I referred to had their axes attached they would have had a chance to attempt self arrest and affect their outcome. They may have had to "gather" up the leash perhaps but how big a deal is that? Most leashes I've seen are less than 2' in length, how hard would it be to haul that in to attempt an arrest that might save your life?

I still think leashing is safer, it prevents accidentally dropping your axe when changing hands, taking a photo, a whiz, etc. and it also gives you the opportunity to attempt to retrieve it should you loose control of it during a fall or glisade.

There have been some good points raised here, enough for folks to make their own decissions about what they feel safest with. That's one of the great things about mountaineering, the challenge of deciding for yourself what's right or wrong...Freedom of the Hills!!

Paul

Paul,

Well, having tried it before during an intentional practice, it's IMHO next to impossible to get your ice axe under control while attached to the end of a leash flailing while you're falling down a mountain, and the way it was bouncing around scared the hell out of me.

That said, such a decision is very much a personal decision, and when your safety is at state, each person needs to go with their gut, and I would respect anyone who felt it was better to remain leashed.

Cheers,
Jeff Long

Hi climberpm (and everyone else),

I just saw your question today. I have been in Tibet for the last couple of weeks. This original post is one we keep bumping up each year once we get the first snowfall. Thanks Steve C for doing so once again.

Your leash question has been answered pretty well by Bob R and others. I'll only add a couple comments. Carrying an ice axe with a wrist leash attached is an "old school" method that isn't used too much anymore. Back then people used to carry an ice axe in their "strong hand". If they are left handed they'd carry their axe in their left hand. We now teach carrying the ice axe in your uphill hand. Switchbacking up slopes requires changing between hands and this gets cumbersome if you have the wrist leash on (and presumably gloves).

I have a leash on my axe and it does have a few good uses but one of them isn't to attach it to my wrist. I will occasionally extend that leash with a shoulder length runner and attach it to my harness. It isn't very often I need to do this though. I normally carry my ice axe in my uphill hand and don't use a wrist leash or attach it to my body. I've climbed peaks in the Sierra and world wide for 20+ years in this fashion.

Nothing is engraved in stone with this though. I'd suggest trying different methods and see what works best for you. Feel free to ask more questions if you like. I'm around now catching up on things that have accumulated while being gone.

I have a friend who once took a slide down an icy chute on Baldy for more than 100' before his ice axe caught on a root and stopped him. He did have control of the axe the entire time, and was trying to self-arrest the entire time, but the ice was simply too hard and he couldn't dig in.

I asked him if he uses a leash, and if so where it's attached.
Answer: Yes, and he clips it to his harness.

I told him about this discussion and he mulled it over for a bit and then said, he still prefers clipping onto the axe for a couple reasons:

1. If you want to belay someone, you can just plant the axe, sit down and get yourself planted, and you're good to go. With the leash the axe is an anchor ready made. No fumbling around or stowing it someplace.

2. Say you have a problem with a crampon (or some other piece of equipment): Plant the axe, and you're secured while you work on it. Otherwise you have to get out some gear (if you want to secure yourself) or stow the axe someplace, all the while doing whatever you need to do potentially on a steep slope with a big pack on, etc.

Note: He prefers to clip it into his harness to avoid constantly having to switch the leash from wrist to wrist as you traverse. We were also thinking that the switching itself creates a distraction from what you're doing.

I didn't think to ask him how hard he stopped when he finally did, but thinking to myself, I bet after a fall of that distance, if the axe hadn't been clipped into him, it likely would have been torn right out of his grasp and he would have kept on going.

Just thought some of these points might be of interest.

I was coming down Shasta's Avy Gulch a couple of years ago, and the snow below Red Banks was soft and inviting, so I started to glissade down. About 1/3 way down to Helen Lake, the snow was firmer and I started to pick up speed. Then I noticed another glissader just below me, stopped and resting. I was headed right at him and going too fast to change direction. So I attempted to self-arrest with my axe. The axe slipped right out of my hands: I was wearing just (slippery) liner gloves at the time. But my axe leash stopped me; about 10 feet from the other guy. I could've knocked him tumbling down the slope.

As others have pointed out above, I use a leash not because I think there is any real chance of recovering a loose axe while sliding down, but rather not to accidentally drop them off a slope or a ledge, leaving me in a dangerous position without an axe (I tend to loose things absent mindly, especially when tired).

And I attach the leash on my wrist. The leash is just long enough for me to change hands without having to remove it. It does not hinder my leg movements. The only time I use an axe without a leash is when doing technical climbs and such a tether would get too much in the way of the rope or other gears.

A separate topic sprouted out of Kurt W's Fall Conditions topic. I started this thread for the ice axe attachment discussion.

Unfortunately, this message appears after all the posts above since they are displayed in post number order.

Hi Kurt

Thanks for adding your two cents. This has been a very interesting thread!

I'm REALLY surprised that attaching your axe has become "old school" and that "old school" guys like Bob R and Lou Whittaker don't leash their axes. Have there really been that many accidents caused by attached axes? Or have there just been a couple of really bad accidents that scared some folks into rethinking their leashes?

I'm again very surprised by this way of thinking as it just seems so logical to me to keep it attached.

I use the axe like muddeer, attaching it to a wrist or a pack strap(I personally like the wrist) with a long enough leash to easily move back and forth from left to right hands as needed. Always using the uphill hand as you mentioned. You don't have to take it off, just switch self belay hands, switchbacking is not a problem. I find this also gives added security at a rest stop/step as you can sink the axe and still go about your business with the axe attached. You still have one hand free and you're anchored. It can be a tad clumbsy sometimes at a rest but if you're at a comfortable/SAFE rest then so ahead and unleash.

The option of being able to recollect a lost axe during a fall is only that, an option. I can't argue that I could or couldn't get control of a bouncing axe on the end of a leash as I've never actually tried, but with it attached it leaves that door open vs. slamming it shut.

It would be interesting to run a poll on this, is that something you can setup SteveC? I'll still leash, as do most if not all of the crowd I climb with, but I'm just curious as to how many choose not to!

Thanks to everyone for their comments. I truly thought I was giving a defacto answer when I originally replied to the question "to attach or not". It seems there are two sides to every coin!

Paul