Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Best camera

Hi, everyone. I have my permit for Whitney this summer. This will by my first trip to Whitney. I want to get a digital camera to take with me, but am not that knowledgeable on cameras. And you guys post somem GREAT pictures!! Can you suggest a light weight, compact digital camera that will take great pictures? I am considering the Lumix TZ5 because of the wide angle, good battery life, small size, and fairly light weight.

Hi Doc,

Are you looking for a compact point and shoot or a small digital SLR camera? What is your budget and intended use? Do you care if the camera takes SD cards or compactflash?

In the compact department, Olympus, SONY, Nikon and Canon all are good choices. So many models to choose from. I've have good luck with the coolpix Nikons or Powershot Canons and I've seen decent photos taken with SONY Cybershots.

Although larger than the more compact point and shoots, I always carry an SLR for the added flexibility and also for getting shots in lower light or of wildlife, with a longer lens. I personally carry a D200 or D70 on any hikes./climbs although any of the newer Nikon and Canon SLR's will do a good job.

I also have an Olympus water resistant 725 SW, which is also shock resistant that I use when I am surf fishing out east on Long Island. It takes ok photos, but more importantly can be submerged by rogue waves and dropped on the rocks and still survive.

There is a fairly high correlation here between what you pay for and quality/features.

Check out this site:

http://www.dpreview.com/

Hi, RAC. I want something that is easy to use and light weight. The main use is for hiking and backpacking. I mostly day hikes, or backpacking for no more than a few days. I plan to do the Tour Mont Blanc next year (which takes about 10 days) so being able to store lots of pictures is important. I was thinking of a limit of $300. You put your finger on the problem -- too many choices!!

Hi Doc,

For my first response, I'd like to point out that the best camera is the one you get out and take pictures with. This means two things. First, you must know how to use it. Invest the time before you go to know enough to feel familiar with how it works so you won't hesitate. Second, you can't shoot when you can't reach the camera. Figure a way to carry it that is convenient and protective enough that you -will- carry it and accessible enough that you -can- reach it at any time.

My little P&S fits in a case that holds memory cards and batteries, but still fits comfortably on the front of the shoulder strap of my pack.

My DSLR with 2 lenses, batteries and memory cards is too heavy for any approach but a wide strap over the head and shoulder. It goes on last after the pack.

Intermediate sized cameras can easily go in a big pocket, on the belt or on the shoulder.

How big you go depends on your budget, your picture usage and level of interest. On my web site I have pictures taken with a Pentax 43wr water-resistant P&S (3 megapixel), a Canon S2 (5 megapixel), an Olyupus E500 (8 megapixel) and an Olympus E510 (10 megapixel). On the regular website pages they all look OK. If you want an eight foot by two foot panorama, you should go for a DSLR.

Good Luck!

Dale B. Dalrymple
http://dbdimages.com

Doc, the TZ-series has been very well-liked and with good results. The Leica glass on the Panasonic Lumix cameras can't be beat. The one 'caveat' is that they use the LCD screen only...there's no optical viewfinder (but optical viewfinders with a 10x zoom lens are a bit more complicated to employ). The LCD's are very much improved over the old ones though, and even in bright sun and odd angles are usable.

While I prefer having a choice of viewfinder or LCD, I have a little pocket Lumix LZ7, and it's a fantastic pocket camera, easy to use and gets the shot nearly always, even in difficult situations with low light etc. Last year on a Half Dome trip I handed it to my son as we headed up, and with virtually no instruction beyond a minute or so, he was using it for good photos, movies, reviewing what he took, etc. I had my larger Panasonic Lumix FZ50 on a bino harness for my photos, which has totally removed me from any desire to go back to the SLR or DSLR bulk and costs; with the 12x zoom range and topnotch manual controls it covers most of what I need in a single fairly compact unit.

The TZ-series is very similar to the LZ7, only it has the 10x zoom range instead of the 6x of the LZ7. But, if you're not sure you need the long zoom, have a look at the newer LZ8 and 10, for less cost with little sacrifice in quality (they've added a wider angle lens which is often handy, and it still has a decent 5x zoom range. And Leica glass, with a stabilized lens like most of the Lumix models.

I was an Olympus fan for years, but Panasonic has really put some effort into the non-DSLR digitals the past few years, and they've grabbed me away from Olympus. Not to say there aren't good Oly models, or Canon models, but Canon would love to sell you a DSLR so won't offer you any more than they have to in a smaller camera.

You should be able to find them in a store and get a hands-on trial, which is always nice. A few shots inside the store can tell you a lot, with and without flash, at telephoto range and wide angle, plus you can see how friendly the menus and controls are, as well as how it focuses and such. That's how I ended up with the LZ7...I picked it up on the counter and it was so intuitive to use I was able to use all the controls right away...not to mention it got good shots inside with the flash off and at full zoom.

I was not familiar with the LZ10. It seems to have most of the features of the TZ5, but it looks smaller and is cheaper. I will seriously consider this camera. Thanks, Gary!

doc, last fall, I started a similar thread: I need a new camera

California-Trailwalker posted this Side-by-side Camera Comparison Tool link that really helped.

I finally picked a Canon PowerShot A720 IS with 6x optical zoom. It's more camera than I'll probably ever use, and fits in my pocket. I searched the internet for places to buy it, and got it for under $200 total.
Canon's link to the camera
Here's a good review.

And here's a link to pictures taken with the new camera from my latest trip: Lime Kiln camping I have set the camera to store the pictures with smaller file sizes, so the resolution is not at the max. Uploads go faster.

By the way, unbeknown to me, my son and his wife also bought exactly the same camera a short time before I bought mine. Here are pictures from his trip this past week: Cross Country Road Trip March 2008 It looks like he stores at a higher res, so his pictures when full-blown show better detail. check out the "original" size pics of Grand Canyon, or the prickly cactus!

It seems to run forever on the AA rechargeable batteries. If I go on a long backpack, I think two sets would be all I could ever need. The camera has a setting to shut off the lcd screen, so you can take pictures through the viewfinder to save batteries, too. On his weeklong trip, my son's 2900 mAh NiMH batteries were good for 500 pictures on one charge, and he even used the camera screen to view the the pictures several times, too.

Hi Doc,

One thing I would like to stress is that if you plan on any extended trip in the bush away from sources of power, either bring sufficient batteries to ensure you won't run out or buy a camera with efficient battery utilization.

Solar power is an option, though may not charge fast enough in the conditions you may find yourself in. As stated already, bring enough memory cards!

Hiya, DocDiamond!

I have a Sony DSC-S700, which seems to suit my needs well: lightweight, compact, 7.2 MGP, 3x optical zoom. The best thing about it, which is the most uncommon thing out there, is that it runs on AA batteries. I've really resisted going to a rechargable battery due to not wanting to either: run out of power half way through a trip, and carrying some sort of solar charger. When I bought the camera, the guy at the shop said, "Yeah, Sony makes great cameras for kids..." but with all my other wants for a camera, this one fit. You can see some of my pics at the link below my signature. I've been quite happy with it.

-L

Yeah..I'll mirror what a lot of others have said in this thread in that I like my cameras to use AA batteries since proprietary battery packs can't be charged on the trail or on multi-day trips unless you have something like a solar charger. Carrying lithium AA batteries is a good idea for winter/cold hikes. I also prefer to have a viewfinder and an LCD screen that can be shut off. And while most point and shoot digital cameras have the ability to take night shots and stuff, most don't allow you to really futz with things like long exposures and things..which I like to be able to manually control for night or dim light photos like this:

http://www.mudspike.com/images/grand16.jpg

http://www.mudspike.com/hazel/hazel09.jpg

And as Dale indicated, the best camera is one that you are going to actually pull out and use..so size and ease of use are important considerations. For what it's worth I'm using a 6 year old Olympus C5050Z (4 megapixels) and it has survived a lot of abuse from mountains to kayaking to going underwater. Check out these underwater shots I took with it in Grand Cayman! LINK

Good luck..and most importantly..post pictures when you take em'!

Chris

for those who said they like AA batteries over rechargable, just a reminder, you can carry two or even 3 reachargable batteries if you want, just like you can carry multiple AA batteries.
on my Nikon D40 I can get over 5,000 pictures per charge. on my D2X I can get about 3,000.
i know those cameras are a little big for long hikes or climbs though.
thankfully todays digital p&s market is full of good performing and inexpensive, easy to use cameras.
personally i like the canon powershots.

Regarding AA's or lithium batteries, for several years I strongly felt that AA's were better, for reasons similar to those given...you can buy them anywhere in a pinch, or to some extent use batteries from other devices if needed.

Since switching to a camera that uses a proprietary lithium battery however, I've reassessed my ideas on this. First, AA alkalines are worthless for battery life in digital cameras, so for anything other than emergency you've got to use very expensive non-rechargeable lithium AA's or the more common NIMH, which are the best rechargeables. Unfortunately, they do not hold up well in storage, and lose a rather substantial percentage of their charge in even a week or two, so they are not so reliable unless you've charged them recently.

Also, ever dropped one battery from a set while switching? I did, in cracks between rocks, lost in some unknown place, etc. Multiple batteries are much more prone to this than a single cell. Changing time is an issue also, though possibly not as critical for hiking photos as for other situations where a shot may be lost.

Lithium rechargeables on the other hand, hold a full charge for very long times, and outlast NIMH cells by a longshot. Shooting at all day events such as races or festivals, I would go through several sets of NIMH AA's where with the current lithium cells I use in my camera, I seldom have to switch batteries more than once. Price is not such an issue, since there are many third party providers for these batteries, and it's a one-time expense. Frankly, for a two week backpacking trip, I'd feel more comfortable with a few spare lithiums than 2-4x the amount of rechargeable AA's, and you'd need at least 4-8x the number of AA's to match battery life. 4 spare lithiums for $50, or 4 sets of 4 AA's for $40, is pretty much a wash.

But the Lumix LZ8 or 10 I suggested having a look at, uses AA's, is that a contradiction? A little, but mostly it's not wise to buy a camera based on the batteries it uses, or the media it uses; they are one-time purchase items, and if the rest of the camera is ideal, the batteries or media are not something to make or break your decision on.

Sony uses memory stick; Oly uses xD (and Fuji in some cases) and both are lousy media choices; proprietary and overpriced and sometimes sluggish, besides being unnecessary to begin with. SD and compact flash are much better choices, all else being equal. Same with batteries, some cameras use lithiums and some use AA's, and both have good and bad points, even though we have our preferences. But neither is worth more than a minor consideration in picking a camera.

Amazon and dpreview both have user reviews, and there are other places for those. Those can help a lot in choosing, though you have to evaluate the reviews by their content. Look for gripes about sluggishness, poor battery life, flimsy construction, and shun any gripes about service or shipping. What distance is the flash usable? It does matter, and varies a lot with different models. Photos can be a little help, but a good photographer can take good photos with most anything, so you can't necessarily evaluate a camera based on 'look at these' situations. Have a look at the sample photos at a place like Dpreview, which are taken by the same individuals, and not reliant on content, if you want to evaluate photo quality.

You can also go to www.pbase.com and use the search to find photos from different models, but again, a great camera can show some lousy results from the wrong person, and vice-versa. There are user forums for different makes at dpreview; if you check in there, you should at least be able to find other user experiences and some honest evaluations, though often with some brand bias.

I'm on my third digital camera. Bought one of the origninal Nikon 990 3-megapixel point'n'shoot cameras, basically wore the poor thing out. Replaced that with a Nikon 4500 so I could use the wide, tele and fisheye adaptors I had bought for the 990. It died prematurely and I haven't taken it apart to see if I can fix it (think it's the home switch on the zoom action).

Then Nikon came out with the D2X and I could afford a DSLR that would use all of my old Nikon glass. I must admit I got a few odd looks from Scouts on our 2007 Philmont trek with the D2X hanging around my neck, but it was definitely worth it for the image quality. (Heck, it's a lot lighter than the Mamiya RB67 I used to carry backpacking...)

I'm also familiar with the Canon PowerShot line since both my wife (newly converted to digital) and son (shooting with his since 2004) have them. For P&S, they're very nice cameras and image quality is plenty for web work and snapshot-quality prints. Face it...the glass on any P&S won't measure up to that on a DSLR, plus the DSLR's image sensor is bigger, minimizing any lens optical defects in the first place. (Why do you think people shoot large-format film instead of 35mm? The more area, the better the image...)

As for batteries, the D2X provides the best of both worlds with the add-on battery pack. Either one or two of the proprietary Li-ion rechargeables or a 6-AA carrier that slides in instead. I used one set of Lithium primary batteries for the whole Philmont trip (10 days on the trail), over 1,000 shots, and only had to swap batteries on the very last day. Plus, I had shot quite a few frames at summer camp the month before, so I'm sold on Lithium AAs for backpacking use. Very light and excellent power capacity.

As far as what camera you ought to buy, well, depends on what you want to do. If you're happy with snapshots (4x6 prints) and web work, many of the better P&S digitals will work just fine. If you want to do 8x10 and larger, you're going to have to lug a DSLR and a couple of lenses. Mostly, it's a matter of using the right tool for the right job, and putting up with the compromises inherent in trading weight for capabilities.

I'm too used to lugging a film SLR all the time, so hanging the D2X around my neck on a trek or climb just seems natural. However, if you want to toss a camera in your pocket and forget it's there, weight-wise, I vote for the Canon family.

One huge caution, though...and this is critical for mountain use. Always buy a camera with an optical viewfinder. You will find that the LCDs on 99.9% of the digitals are absolutely useless in direct sunlight. Even knowing that the optical viewfinder on my son's or wife's Canon is only 90% accurate, being able to see what you're shooting in bright daylight is critical. You can add a gizmo like the hooded magnifiers I have for both the old 990 and 4500, basically something like a photographer's loupe with an opaque housing. Those work well, but carry the price in battery life.

That's another good observation...if you can use the optical viewfinder and turn off the camera's LCD, you will get a ton more shots per charge or set of batteries. The useless-in-sunlight backlight on the LCD is about the biggest power hog in the whole camera.

My best suggestion is to find a few friends with various cameras and con them into letting you shoot with them and compare shots. You will find that the controls on certain cameras suit you better or worse and the idiosyncracies of some of them will drive you nuts.

Hi,

I have a Panasonic TZ3 and I find it an outstanding and versatile camera. It is compact, easy to use, durable and of course has the extended focal length range. I also feel the image stabilization works great.

I would recommend carrying an extra battery, but I have only needed one when trying to shoot gray whales which required lengthy times with the camera on. If you get an extra battery, get a genuine Panasonic. The aftermarket ones typically lose their capacity more quickly. My other recommendation is that you set the camera to use a 1/3 higher f/stop because the camera tends to over-expose most of the time. One last thing: use ISO 200 or lower or the photos will tend to be on the grainy side.

enjoy your trip.

It's tough to go wrong with a Canon. I recently replaced my old Canon with their Powershot SD1000, a 7.1 megapixel in their Elph line. It's tiny, takes great pictures and was about $175 on Amazon a couple of months ago.

I recently bought a 2GB memory card and backup battery for it, again on Amazon, for a grand total of $20 which included shipping. Have only done 1 or 2 recharge cycles on the replacement battery so don't know how well it will perform over time, but thus far it seems to be the same quality as the factory version.

Thanks for all of your ideas on a new hiking camera!! And the pictures you linked to were all spectacular. You brought up a number of issues that I would have never thought of. I am still digesting all of the info, but there are a number of good options that you guys have identified. You have really helped me in my quest for a good camera for Mount Whitney.

Categorizing cameras as either point and shoot or DSLR is a mistake. There are true 'point and shoots' that are very compact, and while some may have manual controls, they're not designed to be easily used on a regular basis. However, I definitely take issue with the "8x10 or larger" idea of needing a DSLR for that. Most point and shoot models now are at least 7 megapixels, and even heavily cropped can produce excellent, sharp 8x10's, and larger.

More feature packed, non-DSLR cameras are often referred to as "bridge" cameras, for lack of a better term, and often combine the features a photographer needs with the lack of need for a bunch of bulky, expensive equipment. This style of camera didn't really exist before digital, and as a long-time 35mm photographer who was happy to leave the bulky lenses and constant switching (not to mention expense) behind, I take issue with the idea that most people "need a DSLR" for anything. It's certainly an option, but one that carries a lot of baggage.

"4x6 snapshots or web shots" is a pretty condescending dismissal of what a person can do with any current digital...maybe my 1.3 megapixel Oly D450x from 1999, but certainly not anything current. My current 'main' camera, a Panasonic Lumix FZ-50 is not a DSLR, the lens doesn't come off, yet I print 13x19 and larger prints, have had double page magazine (30x45cm) photos published several times with cropped files from this camera, and the photos are used for printed promo materials for a local music festival I do the photo work for. And I couldn't be more thrilled to not have to haul many pounds of $4000+ lenses around to do it 8^). The "glass" is made by Leica, and lives up to their standards, yet I can clip the camera onto a bino-harness and head out, having 35-420mm of zoom at f/2.8, something you'd need a backpack and hefty bank account to do with a dslr.

I prefer electronic viewfinders over mirrored optical ones, though I agree that having LCD-only is a disadvantage. However, recent LCD's are very usable in direct sun, so for the purpose of a pocketable hiking camera might be just fine. (unfortunately, many of the better models mentioned don't have optical viewfinders...they are tricky to employ with longer zooms)

I think a majority of the folks here aren't concerned so much about great photography as they are having an easy to use, easy to carry, doesn't let them down camera to take with them to preserve the memories and sights of their hikes; to use a DSLR for that is pretty pointless, unless that's all you've got, or you just like hauling an expensive camera and lenses around. Most of what matters in the photos you see and enjoy are a result of the photographer, not the camera. So buy something you'll have with you, and you won't be reluctant to use because it's a hassle.

Interesting response, Gary R - thanks. I had a similar reaction to some of Alan's comments, but am just an avid amateur, so what do I know!? Anyway - on the issue of using the LCD vs. the viewfinder - I use the viewfinder all the time, even in intense sunlight. For several years I used a Canon SD10, one of the earliest ELPH's, and it didn't have a viewfinder, so the LCD was all I had. My SD1000 has both, and I find that I use the LCD almost exclusively. It might use more battery power, but I haven't found that to be an issue.

Weight is always an issue when hiking, and a compact camera is easy to attach to a chest strap. With this convenience, you end up taking pictures more easily. I've also found that the pouches some pack manufacturers, like Osprey and others, have added to their waist bands are large enough to hold a compact digital camera, even in their case.

Thanks again to all that responded. I thought you might be curious what I ended up buying. Because the Lumix TZ5 is hitting the stores, I was able to get a TZ3 for less than $200 shipped with all taxes. It has good resolution, has a good quality wide angle lens, and has 10X zoom. I really wanted a pocket camera instead of an SLR, based largely on what you guys said. I want a point and shoot, compact camera that is easy to use. This camera doesn't have a separate view finder, which is a negative, and doesn't take AA batteries. But I plan to buy one two extra batteries, which are relatively cheap. Anyhow, I will be on the Main Trail July 17-19. If you see some fat, grey haired guy with a TZ3, say hi! See you at the top.

Doc, that's a good price for a TZ3; a lot of folks really like their "tizzies", and I've seen some excellent results with them, so it sounds like a good choice. You can't beat having 10x of optical zoom, stabilized no less, in a pocket sized camera, and for that price, no less! You'll have some time to familiarize yourself with its features before your trip, though I suspect it will be very easy to use like my LZ7. Have a great trip!