Mt. Whitney Webcam 1

Webcam 1 Legend
Mt. Whitney Webcam 2

Webcam 2 Legend
Mt. Whitney Timelapse
Owens Valley North

Owens Valley North Legend
Owens Valley South

Owens Valley South Legend
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 57
Member
Member

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 57
Originally Posted By bsmith

apparently negligible.

apparently leaches when the container's liquid is heated.

apparently leaches when cleaned with bleach - among other things.

i'll use mine for the temporary storage of water, and will clean it with soap and water and allow to dry.

i'll not clean it with bleach nor will i store hot anything in it.

and maybe buy a new bottle when available.

and BTW they are not recyclable.


Ha! I haven't cleaned either of my Nalgenes in the 5 years that I have owned them. I use Gatorade bottles anyways....

Last edited by TwoFortyJeff; 04/19/08 05:31 PM.
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 961
Member
Member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 961
Quote:
I use Gatorade bottles anyways....

So do I.

CaT

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 612
Member
Member

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 612
The bottom line is we live in a plastic world. Increasingly everything we use as containers are made from plastic products.Plastic products have long been known to have toxic residues.We have seen it coming and continued to cosume the products to the point that they are now in every part of our lives. It is not good to stray so far from Mother Nature.

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 47
Member
Member

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 47
so what's the alternative? assume that you do winter camping, or backcountry skiing, or alpine climbing, and your primary hydration comes from melting snow. I've taken the Nalgene bottle precisely because it can handle hot liquid, and I don't know what the non-Nalgene alternative is here.

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 612
Member
Member

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 612
ms2119 Stainless steel or the non-BPA products from nalgene and other companies..

Last edited by DocRodneydog; 04/20/08 03:34 AM.
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 612
Member
Member

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 612
Here is an except from this link
http://www.ewg.org/reports/bisphenola

Bisphenol A demonstrates the fallacy of nearly every long-standing tenet of government-style safety standards and traditional high-dose toxicology:

Low doses and toxicity. Where traditional toxicology asserts that higher doses confer greater harm, bisphenol A tests show that low doses can be the most toxic of all, below the radar screen of the body's compensatory detoxifying mechanisms, or below overtly toxic doses that destroy the tissues under study. In one investigation a low dose of BPA produced a 70% higher growth rate of prostate cancer cells in lab animals than did higher doses (Wetherill et al. 2002). In another study lower doses of BPA resulted in higher rates of breast cell growth that can precede cancer (Markey et al. 2001). ("Low doses" are typically defined as those that produce tissue concentrations at or below those in the typical range of human exposures.)

I personally find this interesting since I was diagnosed and treated last year for advanced prostate cancer.Hmmmm

Last edited by DocRodneydog; 04/20/08 04:04 AM.
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 137
Member
Member

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 137
Originally Posted By ms2119
so what's the alternative? assume that you do winter camping, or backcountry skiing, or alpine climbing, and your primary hydration comes from melting snow. I've taken the Nalgene bottle precisely because it can handle hot liquid, and I don't know what the non-Nalgene alternative is here.


sigg: sigg

guyot: guyot

nalgene: nalgene



bsmith

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,871
Member
Member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,871
I use Nalgene bottle for less than 10 gallons of water consumed per year. When my Nalgene bottle wear out they will be replaced with BPA-free product. Sorry, if I'm not duly scared.

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 750
Member
Member

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 750
Originally Posted By wbtravis5152
When my Nalgene bottle wear out they will be replaced with BPA-free product. Sorry, if I'm not duly scared.
That about sums it up for me.

Here's some more info from another webpage on the informative site in DocRodneydog's message. http://www.ewg.org/node/20944
"Many metal water bottles are lined with a plastic coating that contains BPA. Look for stainless steel bottles that do not have a plastic liner."

Last edited by Bob K.; 04/20/08 05:51 PM.
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 96
Member
Member

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 96
Tons of data about BPA in Wikipedia:

Dose (µg/kg/day) // Effects measured in studies of mice or rats,
0.025 // Permanent changes to genital tract
0.025 // Changes in breast tissue that predispose cells to hormones
2 // increased prostate weight 30%
2 // lower bodyweight signs of early puberty
2.4 // Decline in testicular testosterone
2.5 // Breast cells predisposed to cancer
10 // Prostate cells more sensitive to hormones and cancer
10 // insulin resistance develops in 2 days
10 // Decreased maternal behaviors
20 // Damage to eggs and chromosomes
25 // Health Canada provisional human exposure limit
30 // Reversed the normal sex differences in brain structure
50 // U.S. human exposure limit
50 // European Food Safety Authority tolerable daily intake level

Population // Estimated daily bisphenol A intake, μg/mg/day.
Infant(0-6 months)formula-fed // 1-11
Infant(0-6 months)breast-fed // 0.2-1
Infant(6-12 months) // 1.65-13
Child (1.5-6 years) // 0.043-14.7
Adult // 0.008-1.5

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A


And I'm reading my UC Davis magazine this morning, and there is this article about researchers at the university finding that triclocarban found in antibacterial soap can alter hormonal activity in rats and in human cells in the laboratory.
..."some synthetic chemicals in household products can cause health problems by inerfering with normal hormone action. Called endocrine disruptors, such chemicals have been linked in animal studies to a variety of problems, including cancer, reproductive failure and developmental anomalies."

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 612
Member
Member

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 612
wbtravis no one is trying to scare you.Information is power and allows for informed choices.Everyone can take as much information as is available then make an informed decision.It is pretty obvious some here will make no changes and that is perfectly OK if that is their decision.
Personally as someone who has developed prostate cancer with no family history of it I am more than curious about how I developed such an advanced case at such a relative young age(54).IF BPA is a possible source of my prostate cancer I sure as hell would have like to had that information available to me before I contracted it.

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,871
Member
Member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,871
Doc,

I read the reports months ago and made the decision then that it was not a problem for me. It was an informed choice.

I view along the same lines as saccharin and cyclamates, much ado about little.

Last edited by wbtravis5152; 04/21/08 06:48 AM.
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 96
Member
Member

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 96
An article about the Stanford researcher who first discovered that BPA leaches from certain plastic containers. Can we avoid that stuff even if we tried? I just discovered that the Arrowhead water coolers where I work at use #7 plastic containers.

Stanford researcher stumbled on potential chemical threat
By Patrick May
Mercury News
Article Launched: 05/06/2008 01:34:36 AM PDT

It was back in 1993 when Stanford endocrinologist David Feldman accidentally backed into his startling discovery: potentially dangerous molecules known as bisphenol A, or BPA, were leaching from the plastic flasks he and his colleagues were using for experiments.

"We were growing yeast in the flask to see if we could find estrogenic molecules," said Feldman, who was doing experiments on steroid hormones like estrogen. They found them, but not where they expected. After sterilizing the empty flask with very high heat and pressure, Feldman said he "discovered the molecules must be leeching from the plastic, because they weren't coming from the yeast."

No one paid much attention. But 15 years - and billions of plastic bottles - later, Feldman's discovery seems downright ominous.

Wal-Mart recently announced it will stop selling baby bottles containing BPA early next year, and Nalgene announced it will phase out production of its hard-plastic sports bottles that contain BPA. Governments are also taking notice - Canada placed exposure limits on the chemical, calling it "toxic" to human health. And federal toxicology investigators in the United States recently concluded there is "some concern" that fetuses, infants and children may be harmed by BPA, commonly found in juice bottles, campers' water containers and even that icon of the modern cubicle world - the office water cooler. The FDA, meanwhile, says it has found no links between BPA and health problems.

The problem, Feldman said, is polycarbonate, the clear, sturdy plastic found in thousands of items on grocery-store shelves, including food cans lined with polycarbonate-laced epoxy resin. And it all first surfaced when Feldman heated that plastic flask in his lab.

"That set off an alarm in my head," he said. "Because when BPA was first synthesized, it was known to be structurally connected to DES, or diethylstilbestrol. And 20 years after mothers had been treated with DES to prevent miscarriages, some of their grown children were developing vaginal cancers from that therapy."

The repercussions of what Feldman and research associates Aruna Krishnan and Lazlo Tokes had stumbled upon by accident were alarming. Since BPA leaches from the plastic when it's sterilized and perhaps when washed with certain detergents, the potential for health risks could be immense, even though industry groups say there are no serious health risks associated with plastic bottles containing BPA.

"I'm not an alarmist, and I'm not saying that drinking from plastic bottles will cause breast cancer," said Feldman, who advises his own children not to put plastic containers in the microwave or dishwasher and to limit the amount of canned foods they consume. "But I am worried about the effects of BPA on babies, expectant mothers and fetuses. To me, it's better to be safe than sorry, and we should at least know when people are exposed to this."

So why did it take 15 years for the world to notice?

"Our discovery was a big deal at first, even in Japan," said Feldman, who at a 1994 symposium in Washington, D.C., presented a paper titled "Estrogens in Unexpected Places: Possible Implications for Researchers and Consumers." Feldman said that while many other scientists built upon his research and continue to this day to explore the effects of BPA, initial attempts to push the industry to do more studies and implement safeguards came slowly.

"Why didn't it move faster? Politics, I think. There's a lot of money involved. Billions of pounds of this stuff is being made," he said. "So there's not much incentive by industry to do anything. And scientists can only say so much."

Feldman, who at 69 is still at Stanford but no longer researching BPA, said he's encouraged by the growing precautions taken by industry and government, even if a clear link between health risks and BPA in polycarbonate and perhaps other kinds of plastic has not been conclusively established.

"Maybe the BPA doesn't hurt us or kill us," he said. "But there have been studies where mice and rats are exposed to it, and they're finding changes in their prostate and breast tissue. The question is, how does that translate into human use? And we don't yet know the answer."

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_9167502?IADID=Search-www.mercurynews.com-www.mercurynews.com


Limiting your exposure to BPA
Patrick May, Mercury News
Article Launched: 05/06/2008 01:34:41 AM PDT

There are possible health risks associated with exposure to bisphenol A - a plastic found in reusable food and drink containers and in many popular brands of baby bottles - especially for pregnant women, fetuses and children. Here are some ways to reduce your exposure:

Avoid hard, clear containers or those labeled with the recycling number 7, some of which contain bisphenol A. Containers with the recycling numbers 1, 2, 4 and 5 have not been shown to be dangerous.

Avoid putting plastic containers in the microwave and do not wash them in the dishwasher, as heat and some detergents can cause leaching.

Use glass, porcelain or stainless steel containers whenever possible.

Limit consumption of canned goods.






Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 139
Member
Member

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 139
if anyone's interested this item in free nalgene http://austin.craigslist.org/zip/833865808.html is offering about half a gross of nalgene bottles free

"New Nalgene Water Bottles (south austin)
Reply to: sale-833865808@craigslist.org [?]
Date: 2008-09-09, 11:05AM CDT


"We have approx 75+ Nalgene Water Bottles available. Multiple colors, Lexan, wide mouth bottles with Austin Montessori School logo and our 40th Anniversary graphic/logo silk screened on the bottles.
"Two sizes: Large 32oz and Small 16oz.
"They have never been used.
"If you would like to see our logo and our anniversary graphic, you can see it at www.austinmontessori.org. Picture attached is of the style of the bottles.

"Please contact lori at Lorif@austinmontessori.com is you are interested in the entire stock. Free."






Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 80
Member
Member

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 80
If auto manufacturers were required to post a warning on the dashboards of our vehicles disclosing the hazards of operating and riding in this vehicle would people consider getting rid of their cars? I believe these plastic products are safe, in a relative sense, just as cars are so I'm keeping both for now.


"That which we gain too easily we esteem too lightly" Thomas Paine
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 61
Member
Member

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 61
ditto

I filter my water and wash my Nalgenes with good old soap and water.

I've been told that the thinner plastic bottles that we get our "bottled" water from are worse, not necessarily in BPA leaching, but other polycarbons.
Most bottled water isn't even regulated to boot?
Sorry..no data.

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,309
Member
Member

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,309

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 961
Member
Member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 961
Originally Posted By John P
If auto manufacturers were required to post a warning on the dashboards of our vehicles disclosing the hazards of operating and riding in this vehicle would people consider getting rid of their cars? I believe these plastic products are safe, in a relative sense, just as cars are so I'm keeping both for now.

But you don't consume your car...

CaT

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 80
Member
Member

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 80
Originally Posted By California-Trailwalker
Originally Posted By John P
If auto manufacturers were required to post a warning on the dashboards of our vehicles disclosing the hazards of operating and riding in this vehicle would people consider getting rid of their cars? I believe these plastic products are safe, in a relative sense, just as cars are so I'm keeping both for now.

But you don't consume your car...

CaT


Ah, but it's the exposure to potential hazards that we face everyday without thought that motivated me to present that analogy. The point is real dangers and hazards are present in our lives everyday. The jury is still out on the BPA issue so personally I'm yet to worry about the safety of the bottles I drink out of.


"That which we gain too easily we esteem too lightly" Thomas Paine
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 138
Member
Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 138
Companys make products all the time with "suspicious" chemicals. They do it on purpose so they can then make a newer version, a "safer" version and sell twice as many products. Everyone I know went out and bought the new BPA Free bottles. Looks like Naglene knows what they are doing smile


Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Bob R, Doug Sr 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Mt. Whitney Weather Links


White Mountain/
Barcroft Station

Elev 12,410’

Upper Tyndall Creek
Elev 11,441’

Crabtree Meadows
Elev 10,700’

Cottonwood Lakes
Elev 10,196’

Lone Pine
Elev. 3,727’

Hunter Mountain
Elev. 6,880’

Death Valley/
Furnace Creek

Elev. -193’

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0
(Release build 20240826)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.4.33 Page Time: 0.073s Queries: 57 (0.042s) Memory: 0.8081 MB (Peak: 0.9627 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2025-04-18 05:27:55 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS