Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Dayhikers attmept next sunday....need help

A group of 3 friends and I are going to make a dayhike attempt next Sunday. We have prepared by doing other dayhikes leading up to next weekend. We are by no means fast hikers but all guys in our 20's in pretty good shape. I have read several posts saying to get an early start. We were thinking of heading out on the trail around 1 or 2. I saw another post saying to be leaving trail camp by 5:30 or 6 so the snow will be softer. I just wanted to get some feedback on such an early start time this early in the season. Plus we will all be using trekking poles only (no crampons or axe). So its hiking boots, gaitors, and poles for us!! Any feedback will help thanks.

Just to give you an idea: It took me 5 hours to get from the portal to trail camp last week. I was carrying a 36 lb pack (I'm a 44 yr old female) and I used only my trekking poles. Several small snowfields to cross but nothing major. Above trail camp, the switchbacks were icy in the early morning, due to re-freezing, but some people were fine without crampons. (I bypassed the switchbacks and used ice axe and crampons via the snow chute from there)

If you are not fast hikers it will take you at least 4 hours to get to Trail Camp. That means that if you leave Whitney Portal at 2 am you should not be up at Trail Camp before 6 am (so your last quote is probably irrelevant).

As noted earlier, there are areas on the 97 switchbacks that melt during the day and ice up again overnight. You probably will not want to get up to the switchbacks too early in the morning. At the same time, you want enough buffer time for your return trip, so you probably will not want to leave Whitney Portal after 4 am. There is nothing wrong with leaving at 2 am, if you want some extra buffer time, but leaving at 3 am may be a good compromise.

I came down via the 97 switchbacks yesterday, around 4 PM. There is still some snow here and there, but it shouldn't bother most people. Grampas and 10 y/o kids are summiting successfully. Same comment as always--if it's during the nice part of the day when it's slushy, you shouldn't need crampons. Otherwise, be ready for icy snow.

When I got down to the cables, I was surprised at how much snow is left. For about the western half of the cables section, you are forced next to the cables, using them for hand support. See picture below.



The far west end had a lot(!) of water running over the rocks. When that freezes it will be deadly. In the picture below, I am about to step onto that section.



Until the conditions improve, I recommend that people time their ascents/descents so that they pass this area when they will be walking on water-covered rocks, not ice.

I'll take any of that snow over this on the trail. More info?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rockwellb/2560365891/in/photostream/

Thanks for all the info so far!! I think we will try to head out around 2. Cant wait!! Should be alot of fun!!

Question for veterans, especailly Bob. You state:

"Until the conditions change, I recommend that people time their ascents/descents so that they pass this area when they will be walking on water-covered rocks, not ice."

Exactly what time frame would this be. From reading other posts it sounds like I should plan on hitting the cables around 10-11am on the ascent and 2-3pm on the descent. Does this sound right?
I am doing a day hike on June 28th and this is also my first climb and thanks to a friend backing out, will be doing it alone. I feel that I am prepared, except for trying to nail down what time I should start and expected time/distance to each point. I am pretty fit (just ran a marathon a month ago) and tend to hike pretty quick. Anyone able to give me an estimated timeline.

Thanks so much.

Jeremy

It is hard to give you a good estimate when we do not know your experience hiking at high altitude and the amount of acclimation you plan to do before your hike. On my first day hike to the summit, a "marathon runner" in the group showed up at the Portal later that morning and never caught up to us on the trail. Later we learned that he turned back around Trail Camp due to altitude sickness.

Otherwise, your time frames look reasonable on the return side (but you may have trouble getting from the cables to the summit and back in only 4 hours, so 9 am would be more realistic). Do you plan to leave the Portal around 3-4 am?

I think Bob said it right. We were the first group going up the cables at around 5:45-6am on Sunday, if we didn't have a guy with an ice axe and crampons we would have been waiting a bit for the sun to melt it. I think a 2-3am start time would be good for your group. Even if you got to trail camp a little early it's a great place to watch the sunrise, fill up on water and refuel with some fuel before you tackle the switchbacks.

Your worse nightmare.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rockwellb/2560365891/in/photostream/

Thank goodness snakes are not permitted in the Whitney Zone

That snake picture has been going around for a while. I've got it a few times each stating some place in Arizona. Recently there was a small topic on AZCentral.com on it.

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/WATCHBLOG/25601

Fred,

Appreciate you intput. This will be my first time at this altitude but I have spent time the last few weeks hitting summits at tahoe..up to just under 11,000 feet. No problems yet, but of course, every mountain is different. I anticipated leaving trailhead at 3:00am, hitting trail camp around 6:00 and thus, I believe the switchbacks and cables around 7:30. Hopefully that gets me to summit at about 10:30. Turn around by 11:30 and back to the cables at about 2:00, trail camp at 3:00 and back to my warm tent at 6:00pm.
However, according to Bobs post it sounded more like I should avoid the cables that early and try to get there later in the day. However, this would certainly delay my return.
Those numbers sounded reasonable to me based on what I have been reading but not having been on the mountain before I needed to know if I was being overly optimistic.
Thanks for your advice.

I hit the cables at about 6am on Sunday, they were still iced over but were melting, I bet by 6:30 they would have been in better condition. Or it just takes 1 person on the trail that morning to clear them with some crampons.

Only 1 of the 6 people in our group had an ice axe and crampons, two of us had trekking poles, the rest had nothing. I had trekking poles and wouldn't do it any differently. Weather and conditions can change, but thats what my experience was last weekend.

Don't be overly concerned about the altitude. Your chances of being affected badly are very low,especially since you are up and back within 18 hours or so. Most altitude problems show up after spending the night there. Even then it is rare to be very ill.

Just take your time going up. Save some for the long trip down. It is not a race and you will have plenty of time to finish the hike if you leave early.

You will be affected by the altitude just like everybody else. Maybe a slight rattle in your head when you shake it; you will certainly be breathing deeper and harder. Have fun

Excuse me???

I'd have to say the only sound portion of any of that is the section about taking your time.

For me, 12,000 feet is where I really start slowing down. Considering that most airliner cabins are pressurized to the equivalent of 8,000 feet, 11,000 feet is only half-way up in the upper zone (if you subtract off the first 8,000). You probably will do well, but just be aware of the symptoms.


If you throw out the outliers, I would say that about the middle 90% of the day hikers on the trail make the summit in 8-10 hours. You estimated 7.5 hours up, which is on the brisk side but not over optimistic for a fast hiker (there have been people who made it up in 6 hours or less). You probably can do better than your estimate on the way down. See Bob R's Timeline of 7.75 hours up and 5 hours down. At the same time, you want to enjoy your first hike up the mountain, so don't push yourself more than you have to.

I'm slower and older (47) hiker and it took me a good 8 hours to get from the Portal to the summit last June. There's probably no need to start before 3 am - even a bit later would probably work.

If you're thinking of sleeping at the trailhead before you start the hike it might hurt more than help you because it is true that altitude sickness often sets in when people sleep, so sleeping lower the night before a day hike to 14000' might(we don't all react the same to the thin air) be more beneficial than trying to sleep at the noisy Portal. Most people struggle with the thin air somewhere along the trail to the summit of Whitney, but of course there are some lucky people that can run all the way to the summit without feeling the affects of the thinner air - I'm certainly jeaulous of those few folks.

What works for me is finding the right pace so you don't have to stop to catch your breath every few steps. This pace will slow [color:#000099]as you gain altitude. Sometimes it takes a conscience effort to slow your self down. In groups use the pace of the slowest hiker if staying together and be nice by not pushing the pace on them.

In one case I went hiking with a friend who never made it to the top of this local mountain without stopping to rest several times. I had them slow the pace down and we ended up making it without stopping and a new PR.

I thought the same thing when I read it at first but it does make some sense. My group got to trailcamp around Noon last weekend, we were fooling around, relaxing, playing whiffleball. Generally we all felt great until later that night. One of the six of us starting get sick around 8pm, threw up a few times. She felt better in the morning but wisely headed down instead of trying for the summit.

Myself I had a killer headache all night, it finally let up around 3am.

So I think he is right about not worrying AS MUCH about altitude for a dayhike, as you would for an overnight. Spending 6 hours or so at higher altitude is a lot better than 24 hours.

OVERLY concerned is a problem. I stand by that statement. Most will have a normal response to being up high: heart rate, some lassitude, breathing hard, and not up to what they might expect they can do at sea level.

But to worry about the altitude constantly, take extreme acclimatization methods, don't go there because of fears they read about or see in Everest ascents or any of a number of reasons is being OVERLY concerned. For the normal, healthy person it is not a dangerous experience that many think it is. Its strenuous. But that is what they are there for.

But the facts are:

Most people going to the Sierra and the upper altitudes are from very near sea level and have not acclimated...or start acclimatization on the way up mainly because of scheduling problems. Few of those come down with severe AMS symptoms.

Everybody is affected by altitude in one way or another. Relatively very few visitors to altitudes in the Sierra are debilitated by symptoms. All will have some symptoms such as a head ache that is noticeable when shaken or resting, lack of appetite, poor sleeping, a feeling of being tired all the time, etc. More akin to the night after a pretty good but not outrageous party.

There is very little evidence that will point to a specific person's chance of being affected ahead of time. Having problems before does not make it certain they will occur repeatedly.

Most severe cases of AMS do not occur until 24 hours (give or take) after reaching altitude. There are rare cases of AMS that will occur at even lower altitude or earlier onset above 10,000'. These people would not be helped by staying at altitude ahead of time to acclimatize. They would just be ill, unless started way low and worked on up.

A very small percentage of unacclimatized day hikers are shut down by severe AMS symptoms.

Most severe symptoms - if the hiker is susceptible - begin to occur at about the time the day hiker would be returning to lower altitude. They would experience more symptoms if they stayed over night.

There are a lot of things a day hiker has no control over. So why be OVERLY concerned since it is likely they won't occur. It should be obvious to all that hiking above 10,000' is not like hiking at sea level. But if most take it slowly and don't try to make trail records, they will only notice that they don't go as fast or as long and they will not win any prizes holding their breath.

Most fit day hikers will make it to the top and back. Others less fit will be sorted out usually before 13,000'. An early start increases the less fit (and some who are more susceptible) a better chance at making a roundtrip to the top.

Most of the day hikers that turn around are not caused by AMS. Most just run out of steam walking uphill for 12 miles.