Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Ankle Rolling

Does anybody on this board have the same problem I have, ankles rolling over when you descend? I could fill a page with the boots I have bought and returned because they do not fix the problem. Light or heavy pack, it doesn't matter. I have no problem in the winter because my mountaineering boots have great vertical stiffness and support, just not practical wearing them in the summer. I also tried taping, but it's hard to find that zone between comfort and cutting off circulation. I'll be on the main trail 06-28, I'll be the guy yelling, *&%#@&@ ankles!

Any help?

Thanks,

Ron

I have found that I can get by with lighter boots if I keep enough balance training in my activities. A useful term for this is 'proprioception'. It is a skill that can be trained. See:

http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/conditioning/a/aa062200a.htm

At the end of the day, literally, it is easier to take advantage of prior training (and perhaps be less tired because of it as well) than to count on stiffer boots to make up for sloppy foot placement.

Dale B. Dalrymple
http://dbdimages.com

No boot can offer support to match the muscles you develop by exercise in your ankles. The best exercise is walking on rough terrain several times a week. If that isn't practical, try a moderate wobble board (say while watching TV -- it's boring!). And/or, do 50-100 toes raises every other day; initially you can touch the wall for balance.

I used to roll my ankle all the time, even when I ran 3 times a week. But in the last few years, since I hike so much, my ankles are now a lot stronger, and the injuries far less frequent.

Over 6 years ago, I lost my balance entirely, due to brain damage. The wobble board was very helpful during my recovery.

medically, I've been very impressed with the Aircast ankle support. I've gotten people walking who could basically not walk at all. It used to be prescription, but is now OTC. They will absolutely NOT allow roll-over, and are adjusted with velcro, so are very easy on/off over socks and very adjustable. They have some other products that might be even better, but I've no experience with them:

aircast splint

It sounds like you have some degree of ligament instability that may have been caused by an early ankle sprain. This means that the ligaments no longer can offer stiffness around the ankle, as once they are stretched, they stay stretched. You are then dependent on the muscles around the ankle for stabilization. I am assuming that you are rolling to the outside, which is most common. A sprain in this area is termed an inversion sprain. The Peroneal muscles on the outside of the lower leg are most responsible for keeping this from happening, and frequently become dysfunctional with chronic rolling of the ankle. I would second the suggestions on Proprioceptive training, utilizing balance devices such as the wobble board, balance discs, and the BOSU. As the article mentions, standing on one foot is also a great way to train the system. Try it with your eyes closed for an even greater challenge to the proprioceptive system. You also need to be aware that your ankle issues may be a compensation for problems in other areas, such as your knees and hips; all these areas are responsible for balance, and if you have dysfunctions in any of these areas, your ankles will have to overcompensate.

Get a pair of trailrunners or low top hiking shoes and hike in those. Your ankels will strengthen and you won't need the false security or extra weight of hiking boots.

I broke my 5th metatarsal on a hike (small long bone on outside of foot). As I got back into hiking I needed additional support and my podiatrist gave me a brace that was not very thick and used a combination of laces and velcro that kept my ankle incredibly stable.

My foot could rotate up and down (so slopes were generally okay) but NOT side-to-side. Its main issue was that it really did require a flat footfall since there was none of the "balancing" modest rotations for hitting uneven surfaces, like rocks or logs. I never played with its adjustment much - that is looser/tighter to see if that would allow more or less of the side to side. But I hiked all over Zion National Park with it and also the wilderness areas in northeast Oregon over about a four week period. Whereas without it, walking on sloping sidewalks where driveways crossed sidewalks would create problems. It WORKED.

I will say I was glad to be rid of it once I was healed and muscles regained strength.

Hope you find a solution.

After decades of French technique and other ankle abuse, I too have this problem. Trail running, proprioceptive training; it's all good, and will help. I find that paying attention to what I'm doing with my feet makes a big difference. I usually roll my ankle when I'm daydreaming or tired.

LOL! And I thought I was the only one who daydreams while hiking. I seldom roll my ankles but when I do it's also because I was careless. One thing that helps me when it happens is to realize it right away and make my body go limp. Then I quickly stagger/fall forward so that the force is taken off the ankle and dissipated into forward momentum.

The worst ankle abuse is when you're on crampons on hard, crusty, cupped snow. Ughh.

Thanks for the info and help everybody, great link Dale. I'll have to try some exercise's too Harlan, I don't know how many times my right ankle rolled over on Saturday's hike with Nick.

I'll try lower boots and a support after my Whitney trip.


Ron

I have hiked this trail for years in trail runners and I too have suffered the rolling ankles problem. Years ago I started taping my ankles and the problem was solved. I am a PT so I have some experience in this practice but I found a link that gave some info for everyday people.

http://www.williams.edu/admin/health/ephnotes/notes058.html

It is typically accepted that tape is more effective than wearing a brace and definitely better for fitting in shoes.

Best of luck,

Dave Everett, MPT

www.LIPT.com

http://multiusetc.blogspot.com/2008/06/mt-whitney-up-and-down-in-one-day-6108.html

Thanks Dave, I'll tape my ankles on the summit 06-29 before my descent, it worked pretty good last year.


Ron

Dave, I'm not sure that I agree with that, respectfully. I would certainly agree that might be true in the hands of an expert in taping, but unfortunately, that requires a lot of taping experience, probably only what professionals get.

However, if you are referring to the "soft braces", which are basically a super-thick ace bandage material, I'd certainly agree. They are essentially worthless, in terms of support.

Having treated literally thousands of ankle sprains/strain I wholeheartedly agree with Dale D's article on ankle propioception and rehabilitation with wobble board,disk and or a Bosu.They not only rehabilitate the position sense nerves but strengthen the supportive muscles and tendons since the ligaments heal very poorly.

DocRodneyDog, what is your take on the trail shoe vs. boot debate? I have toyed with the idea of hanging up my boots and using running shoes or trail shoes instead. Having said that, I have had the experience of ankle roll, typically at the end of a long hike like Half Dome, and have not had an injury or sprain and have wondered whether my boot is what saved me from limping down the mountain.

Brent N.

Brent N

I too agree with what was being said about the proprioception/ rehab exercises that help stabilize a "loose" ankle. In my experience on my single day hikes of whitney, even if I have done lots of strengthening ex's I am so fatigued toward the end that a roll is more likely than I would on any other hike. I have sprained my ankles many times over the years and treated many too. I believe in proper proprioceptive training as essential to getting back to the highest level possible. Due to the extreme nature of doing whitney in one day, my experience is the body cannot always do what it was trained to do. Coming down is by far the hardest on the body and not just the ankle. I have sprained in full leather boots as well as trail runners and found the need to add a little extra support to help prevent rolls. I teach my patients to tape and find that they can do it on their own with just a little practice so they do not need to come in just to be taped.

Cheers,

Dave Everett, MPT

That Nick-hike is worse than anything you'll have on Whitney!

I rolled my ankle badly about two weeks before...
http://hwstock.org/ht8/

I was just a lot more careful for two weeks, and went to toe raises and the wobble board. When the big trip came around, I had to hold my anlke stiffly for a few hours, but I had no more rolling incidents.

You should accompany Sergio on Russell ... more fun... do it as a day-hike.

The only thing that will give any ankle support is tape. There are no braces including aircasts that support like tape.Tape acts the most like ligaments. As far as boots vs trail runners i have no opinion because it is an indvidual thing.It is like high tops vs regular tennies. It is a personal preferrence. One is not really better than another.Boots give little support.
Let me make this clear, the best thing is to have strong ankles that have been rehabilitated. The next best thing is if there is weakness and instability of the anterior talo-fibular ligament(most common inversion sprained ligament)or any other ligament is to sports tape it.If you suffer chronic ankle sprains and you still have problems with stability after propioceptive rehab you had better learn how to tape your own ankles.

I'm going out and getting that wobble board. I have to do some-thing, it's getting to be a challenge on long descents. Russell, Hummmm? I'll see Segio Saturday at Potluck on Charleston. I'll try out the taping method for the descent.


Ron

Is there any info. out there on how to tape your ankles? I use to have this problem as well, and I also find that it is worse when you're tired, going downhill, or daydreaming. For me it has gotten a lot better. Last summer I hiked every week and I think this had something to do with my ankles becoming stronger and I also became more sure footed. Instead of falling 2-3 times on a hike and rolling my ankle 4-5 times. I rarely fall now and may roll the ankle once in a great while.

Rafael...