Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Heavy Rain at Portal - 7/12

Wow! Thanks, Laura.

Does anyone have a picture of the mudslide near Independence?

One word: kayak!

Steve: I'm heading that direction today. I'll try to get some pics as we go through.
-L

Thanks everyone for posting info and pictures. Our stupid TV news shows in Reno missed the entire story and this was a BIG one! Also our stupid Reno newspaper compltely dropped the ball too.

I long ago learned my lesson: Don't go to Whitney in July! If I had a dollar for each time I'd been rained off.....

Start of the monsoon season. I've been caught in one of these...not this bad though, and I guess getting caught in at least one on Whitney is a Rite of Passage I guess you'd say.

I've observed monsoon season lasts through about the 3rd week in August then peters out a little. Then the big, clear COLD winds come in but a helluva lot easier to deal with than lightning and floods.

As I sit and look at the calendar and my reservation dates for the 28th of July I wonder if maybe this tidbit of information shouldn't be posted on the "Orientation Notes for Whitney first timers" or something...

SoCalGirl,

the first time i did Whitney was on July 29, 2006 during a monsoon season. we made sure we were on top by 10am and headed down when we saw the first puff of cloud forming. by being up there early on a "pretty good" day we had a great summit.

i talked with hikers coming down on the 28th as we headed to Trail Camp in a mixture of sun, rain, hail, thunder, lightning & sun again. one couple had been on the summit when lightning hit and said it dropped them to the ground and they ran all the way back to Trail Camp. scared them to death. many others said they turned around when the weather came on, not being able to summit.

so it's possible to summit during this season, but be mindful of the weather, keep track of the window of time that gives you your best chance and don't risk your life for a summit.

as you hear over and over... "the mountain will always be there."

Norma, This is the theory we're operating under... our permit is for entrance on the 28th and we are planning (at this point) to summit on the 29th!!

We know we just need to be wary and keep a weathered eye to the sky!

Thanks,
Chris

There was heavy rain at onion valley also

Deathmarcher,

Thanks! We still have a little less then 2 weeks to let the weather patterns change slightly (do you see the hopeful wishing here?)! But I'm sure that we're going to be able to get it somehow!

By the way... great pics!!!!

~Chris

Hi SoCalGirl (Chris),
I already have several sentences posted in the Orientation Notes about the unpredictable weather, particularly in July and August (see Decide on a good time of the year to hike, Emergency Supplies, Plan when to leave, and Develop a contingency plan). I also have notes on Hail and Lightning posted on What can go wrong on Whitney. I don't want to scare people too much.

I have been thinking about adding a link to this thread somewhere when the posts start settling down. Maybe a section on Mudslides/Rockslides/Flash Flooding would be good in the What can go wrong on Whitney thread.

Fred,

I know.. I've read all of those.. figured something labeled "Orientation Notes for Whitney first timers" was something that a firsttimer (me) should read!!! You have compiled a very information well organized section there. It's very easy to use and the links to previous posts and message threads showing examples of what people have actually gone through really help!!! Thanks!!!

The mudslides/rockslides/flash flooding would probably be a good idea too... a lot of people tend to hear "flash flooding" and associate it as an event that happens in much lower lying areas and don't realize that it's something that needs to be watched for even higher up.

Thanks for the feedback. You do not want to know the number of hours that I have spent maintaining the information as new sources of information get posted or the the permit rules change, etc. Then to make matters worse, I had to create new feature threads from scratch when we went to the new message board software in April 2007, since all the links changed and I could not update the threads without losing all the HTML enhancements (like tables; FYI see Old Thread if you are curious). Nonetheless, the Feature Topics frame that Steve C designed is working out well, since the threads do not move.

After thinking about it, I updated the Decide when to Hike section to add two parenthetical remarks on the weather. I even used the word "monsoon" in the sentence on July.

Just a comment: Please use caution with the words "flash flood". I don't think anything around Whitney could be characterized by that term. Yes, the streams may have overflowed a bit, but it was not sudden enough or dangerous enough to be termed a "flash flood".

Flash floods usually imply danger to peoples' lives, where the water flow increases so drastically as to catch people unaware or by surprise, and so quickly that moving to safety is a problem.

Here is a good link on the definition of flash flood.

Steve:

Interesting definition on that site, however, one thing it doesn't mention is that the rainfall doesn't have to be near you to cause a flooding situation. Now, this past weekend, we were definitely under the storm itself, but there are, I'm sure, hundreds of documented occasions where a storm higher up sent mass volumes of water (and thereby debris) down the canyons and gullies. I know this is an extremely common occurrence in places like Death Valley and Canyonlands.

So I think using the term 'flash flood' is appropriate: was it a wall of water that swept through the Portal? Not so much, but I was wary of crossing some of the areas when it was at it's peak flow.

Thanks, Fred, for updating everything!

-L

That's a good attitude.

I just scanned my records and, over the years, I have climbed Mt. Whitney 24 25 times in July and 23 times in August. How many times have I been turned around by imminent or actual storms? Once, in 1979.

There have been a few instances when I have kept an eagle eye out around me for the last couple miles or so, always ready to beat a retreat, but have never otherwise felt endangered by thunderstorms. In fact, except for that one time, I can't remember having been caught in anything other than a short shower up there. I've endured deluges at Trail Camp in the late afternoon or evening. But never on a summit push in the morning or early afternoon.

Does it happen? Of course! You can use the search feature to find the voluminous posts about thunderstorms, lightning, and Mt. Whitney.

What's the chance of it happening? I don't know; I can only tell you my experience. Sure, I have been doing this long enough to reasonably gauge the actual dangers, so I will sometimes go up when novices are turning around. Novices tend to be conservative, as well they should!

The bottom line is, I don't think you should let fear of the season keep you from trying. If storms are anticipated, do all the right things that are recommended on this board, with starting early on summit day being perhaps the most important. Chances are, in my opinion, you'll make the summit in fine and safe style.

Actually, a friend has asked me to accompany him and his girlfriend up there the same weekend. We plan to camp at Trail Camp on the 27th, summit Whitney and Muir on the 28th, come out that day or the next. Maybe we'll cross paths.

Here's a few links with pictures of the slide near Independence.

http://mammothlakesvillage.com/blog/?p=628

http://www.ksrw.sierrawave.net/site/content/view/1117/48/

and what the area of the slide looked like a year ago.

http://www.inyocounty.info/indexfire.html

and finally, what a flash flood looks like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIQrSH6LMgA


hiiker

Oh no.. fear will not keep us from accomplishing our goal. We know that, barring anything catastrophic, there are only two things that will keep us from summiting a week from Tuesday. AMS and weather.

We've worked very hard to educate ourselves regarding AMS, its effects, its causes and its prevention. We feel that we are going to be just fine with our plan of acclimatization and watching each other closely.

As for the weather, we all know what a prickly beast Mother Nature can be at times. However, Mom and I have spent enough time in the outdoors to know when to leave and when it's Ok to go. I'm one of those people who will go to a Ranger Station and ask what the weather up canyon is like... because I know that the flash flood that is going to happen where I want to hike can be caused by weather miles and miles and miles away. "Be Prepared"!!! I have, for the last week, been watching the radar on weather.com and keeping an excel spreadsheet of when and where the rainstorms/thunderstorms develop, where they move and how close they come to LP/MW. We plan on using this spreadsheet and teh information from the board to finalize our tentative timeline for ascent.




And the funny thing is that we could walk next to each other then entire length of the trail and unless someone mentioned the boards or something we'd never know that we've ever even spoken!!

Just for info...

The recent big storm was exciting elsewhere than Whitney as well.

I was at Bear Creek along the JMT. Two inches of hail. trails were transformed into rivers of flowing slush. Despite our raingear, it was cold and wet, so we force-marched at hyperventilating max speed for 1.5 hrs repeating "don't slow down, don't slow down" to ward off hypothermia. When the storm let up, I remember trying to eat some gorp to restoke my furnace...M&Ms were flying everywhere trying to gulp them down. We set up camp at the Bear Creek crossing, and dried out our stuff on a wood fire. A glorious day. Ended up a few days later exiting out Lamarck Col.
Harvey

Harvey, what did you have in the way of rain gear? And did you consider a bivouac, or was the storm too rough for that?

I'm sure the campfire was a welcome relief.

My first time was a one day permit last Aug. 27th. It rained and lighting all the way to trail camp and then it hailed and snowed the entire climb to the summit. It kicked our butt and we were to tired to make it the last 1.5 miles. We turned around and hiked back to the car talking about weather we never see here in So. Cal. This past weekend we got a two day permit. We hiked to trail camp. Again, it rained, thundered and lighting that night. But this time we were in our tent. I kinda like the extreme weather. Makes it interesting and something to talk about when you get home. The mountain is beautiful in any condtion. You will be fine. Have fun !!!

My two cents