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#51289 08/01/08 02:29 AM
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I thought there was a discussion earlier this year on taking 35mm photos of the sky at night, but when I searched for it, I could'nt find it. Does anybody have some advice on camera settings and film type for this? Or, does somebody know where the original discussion is? Thanks.

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I don't think there was a discussion like that here. Sorry.

#51372 08/01/08 11:01 PM
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High ISO, big apeture, slow shutter speed. OR...just buy a digital and try a million different settings, you are bound to get a few of them right.

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enf
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Essentials for night sky photos:
1. Tripod
2. Cable shutter release

Given that a tripod is a requirement (since the exposure times are so long), a high ASA film will not be an absolute necessity. You can take advantage of the higher grain of a lower ASA film.

Bottom line - I don't think you can calculate exposure times and aperture settings with a handheld light meter. I think it's all done by trial and error and experience. (I remember reading a photography book about how some night scenes of cities - where you see the red streaming taillights of cars - have exposure times around 30 seconds.)

enf #51399 08/02/08 06:34 AM
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ditto on the tripod. many people dont like to use them but they are essential.

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Here's a night shot, taken near midnight, of Lake Tenaya.

Note the streak from the jet. And lights from campers across the lake. And the reflection of the stars on the water.

It is a 60 second exposure on a Nikon D50 (digital SLR)

Click on the image to see the full-size picture.


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Off the top of my head, and some duplicates of earlier comments:

1. Tripod, tripod, tripod. Doesn't have to be tall but needs to be stable so you can leave it for a while. Good stiff rotational locks so it doesn't move once you set it.

2. Medium or high speed film. (200 ASA or 400 ASA) You'll have to live with more grain and less sharpness than daylight but will capture more stars.

3. Fixed-focal-length lens. That is, a 24mm wide-angle, not a 24~120 zoom set to 24mm. Two reasons for this: First, the zooms are heavy and tend to make the tripod slip. Second, most modern zooms are not par-focal and therefore don't have a true infinity stop, so you have to estimate focus.

4. Large aperture diameter (smaller f/number). A 35mm f/2 lens lets in four times as much light as a 35~105 f/4 zoom at 35mm.

5. Camera body with cable release (mechanical or electronic, either way) capability, manual focus and either 'B' or 'T' manual shutter speed settings. ('B' or "bulb" keeps the shutter open as long as you hold the button/release. 'T' opens with a push and closes with a second push or by tweaking the shutter speed dial...check your camera manual) If your camera has the 'T' setting, any cable release is ok. If it just has 'B', you're going to need a locking cable release.

6. Patience. Depending on how long of star trails you want to record, exposure times from minutes to hours are required. Remember the earth turns 15 degrees per hour, so that tells you how long it takes if you want star trails that cover 30 degrees of the sky.

7. Dark sky. Not just night, but dark like we love up in the mountains.

8. No moon. Well, at most, the moon behind you but even so, then you have to worry about the moonlit foreground for really long exposures (15 minutes and up).

So much for equipment. Now, setup and execution:

1. Find a stable, sheltered location for the tripod (less wind means less vibration) and set it up, just tall enough to clear whatever low-lying grass, brush, rocks, etc., would clutter your foreground.

2. Mount the camera, aim it and set the lens for infinity (turning off any autofocus) and wide-open (lowest number) aperture, say f/2, for example. Attach the cable release.

3. Take your shots starting at 30 sec and going 1, 2, 4, 8, 15, 30, 60 minutes or until you run out of patience.

4. Re-run the same sequence at a two-stops-smaller aperture (higher numeric value, say f/4 if you were using f/2 in the initial run in step 3).

5. Take the camera home, unload it, have the film souped and say a prayer to the deity or karma of your choice.

(If this sounds like a trial and error process, yup, until you know how the camera/lens/film combination you're using is REALLY going to work in the field.)

Gotchas:

1. Brightly-lit objects in the foreground...somebody in their tent with a bright light, for exmaple.

2. Bright campfire in the foreground.

3. Enough city lights to wash out part of the sky.

4. Reciprocity failure. Huh? Ok, film has both a "good" range of light (number of photons) that it likes to deal with, and, below that, funky things can happen. Below some threshold (photons/second), the electrochemical processes in the silver grains just won't happen because the electrons don't get hit often enough to be bumped up into the stable energy levels or something like that, so even though you might collect enough in absolute terms, the rate isn't high enough to expose the film. For most films, this starts at shutter speeds in the 2-10 second range, so you can see it is a potential problem. (That's why I said some trial/error is necessary for a given brand/speed/type of film.)

...hope this helps...

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I just got back from backpacking last night so I couldn't say thanks for all the advice until now. Thank you, thank you. I shot two rolls at night and just dropped them off to be developed. As soon as I know what turned out, I will post it. One thing I did learn already, without even seeing the outcome, is that I need an easier tripod. My tripod was so difficult to adjust to the right position and then when I tried to tighten it down, it would move a small amount. I spent most of my time fighting with it.

Alan- Thank you for the detailed advice. I do have a question on the reciprocity issue. Is this based on the type (brand) of film? Are there specific types that are better suited for long exposure/night shots?

Steve- Wonderful photo!

Again, thank you all very much.

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Regarding different film types, yes, their reciprocity effects will definitely differ. For instance, the old Vericolor Pro that I used to shoot for weddings (Mamiya RB67, medium format) was specifically intended for exposures of 1/10 sec and shorter. There was another film in the same family that was set up for longer exposures like you might do of still objects in a studio (for greater depth of field).

As far as modern films, I'd have to go do a bunch of research but in general, you start losing something like a stop or more of sensitivity on very long (tens of seconds to minutes) exposures.

It may not be rocket science, but being willing to burn a couple of rolls of film to find out how it really works will be worthwhile in the long term.

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Here are a couple of the photos that turned out.


FH000001
This one is of Mt. Whitney from Lone Pine Campground.


star1
This one is from Big Pine Creek Campground west of Big Pine.

Thanks for all the advice. I'll keep trying.



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