Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board hike JMT legally without bear canister?

I can only answer for myself, but in 13 or 14 years of hiking; 95% of it dayhikes (24 hours or less); I have been stuck out overnight ONCE. And food storage wasn't a problem, I ate everything I had with me. I would say that a dayhiker stuck overnight is in a good position to protect their pack since they aren't going to get much sleep anyway. At least I didn't. I was worried about finding the trail in morning, what my family must be thinking and I had no overnight gear (not so comfy without a pad). By that point the only thing I had that a bear would be interested in was bug spray and sunscreen.

A dayhiker who stays out overnight on purpose isn't a dayhiker, but a backpacker going illegally.

If the weight of a canister is going to make or break the trip you need to either - get a big brother to carry the canister or revise your trip. Maybe join Jenny Craig and find another way to shed the 3-4 pounds.................................DUG

What exactly did they say? I've found that I have to phrase my questions to them rather precisely, and even then they may change opinions in mid-discussion. If you have a link that discusses this issue unambiguously, that would help us all. Remember, the issue is whether you are required to have a bear barrel when you won't camp in an area that has bear barrel requirements. Rangers are often not massively intelligent people, and I've known them to argue with each other about the interpretations of rules.

As stated, I carry a bear barrel.

Now, for interpretation:

http://www.nps.gov/archive/seki/snrm/wildlife/food_storage.htm
"Through hikers along the Pacific Crest Trail and the John Muir Trail with a valid wilderness permit must use portable, park approved, bear-proof food storage containers or camp at sites with food storage lockers and use the lockers. Hanging food (e.g. counterbalancing) in restricted areas is prohibited until snow prevents access to food storage lockers."

Note the "or" clause.

Ambiguity:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/recreation/wild/bear.shtml
What is the "North" John Muir Trail?

up until the penultimate post this thread has been mainly editorial. Of course, the original post asked for information rather than editorializing.

I found it funny that someone would argue for a bear can in the BC based on her experience at Whitney Portal.

Left to my own devices, for the Muir Trail I'd take an Ursack and do so guiltlessly. I expect that's what I will do later this month. However, if I can do this "legally" by camping outside of the zones explicitly requiring a bear canister, I will do so.

Of course the initial post had its editorializing in the form of the "ranger canister" comment. That set the tone for the thread.

I am unclear on the significance of the quotes around "legally." Do you mean "if I can do this legally by camping outside of the zones explicitly requiring a bear canister, I will do so and if I have to do it illegally I will do so"?

The JMT is great. I do hope you have a great hike and no bear troubles.

Have a good time. Just be aware that rangers occasionally cite people for stuff that's ambiguous, and once you have the "ticket", it's very hard to get it dismissed.

> I found it funny that someone would argue for a bear can in the BC based on her experience at Whitney Portal.

That reminds me of a link posted a while back where some JMT hikers camped in the "BC" (at Thousand Island Lake) without a "ranger" cannister. They took pictures of the bear feasting on their food, completely unconcerned about their activities. (Maybe someone else can find it.)

> if I can do this "legally" by camping outside of the zones explicitly requiring a bear canister, I will do so.

Might be difficult for the northern part of the JMT. See this map: Sierra Nevada Wilderness Food Storage Requirements March 2008
Or you could do it like AlanK: Dayhike the Yosemite to Tuolumne Meadows, and Tuolumne Meadows to Devils Postpile.

You know... my Momma always used to (and still does occassionally) tell me this:

"If you spent half the energy just doing the thing... that you spend trying to get out of it... it'll be done and over with"

Just my random two cents worth.

Something that many may not be aware of: the backcountry rangers often hear offered up as an excuse: "I didn't understand the regs."

Summer before last, I attended the annual "wilderness ranger rendezvous", with rangers in attendendance from all of the areas of the sierra. One of the topics discussed and proposed, was a change in regulations to help all the poor confused hikers out there, requiring cannisters EVERYWHERE in the Sierra, instead of just places of high bear impact. I must admit I made a bit of a pest of myself arguing against that approach.

However, as I hear more and more "confusion" over the regs, it starts to make some sense. The proposal came from one of the rangers who works in the Whitney area.

So what one person does, can have a very significant impact on all the rest of us.

Again: I would choose to carry a canister, and just go rapidly through these areas. But there is a big problem with a 9-day hike: bear canisters rarely hold more than 7 days of food. Mine holds just 4. If one can resupply food, or pick up, rent, and drop off the canisters at stations on the trail, those conveniences help a lot.

And, if the hikers use the excuse of not understanding the regs, we must also recognize that the rangers often don't understand the regs either.

Example 1: I made a courtesy call to Great Basin Park, asking about the requirements for backpacking to Baker Lake, for a group of 10. I was told that I would need a "special use permit", requiring a prepayment and a special approval process. The ranger got quite annoyed when I asked for more detail. I looked up the regs, called again with chapter and verse, and the exact same ranger told me that I didn't need a special use permit.

Example 2: some friends were nearly cited in Zion, because they were carrying a rope in the backcountry. The ranger insisted they needed a permit. They pointed out that one needs a permit only if one were entering the permit-required canyons or climbs, not if one were setting handlines on a nameless mountain. The ranger reluctantly checked by radio, found they were right, and let them off -- but not without some anger.

The rangers have a tough job; I think their regs are more confusing than (e.g.) traffic laws.

Come on people…whatever the nebulous “regulation” questions, the writing is on the High Sierra wall…USE A CAN. You can argue all you want about being confused or whatever, (really lame excuses if you ask me), but the fact remains that the bears need our help, and by using a can, we are saving them.
Sure, initially I also rationalized about…
1) Never having lost anything by hanging…so why?
2) The stuff doesn’t all fit, so why?
3) I am just passing through…
4) I never see them…
5) I always camp high up…
6) They hurt my back…
7) The rangers never check me; I camp away from civilization…
8) I am traveling light...
9) I throw rocks…
10) A can will not fit in my pack...
11) I can still hang food in some places legally…
12) There are bear boxes…
13) They are too heavy and cumbersome…
14) The rangers confused me…
15) Bla, Bla, Bla…

How much “extra weight” do they really add to a pack? Carrying a can is the least we can do, and a small price to pay for all that the Sierra gives us back.

hwstock,

What did they say to a wise ass who had all the smart a$$ retorts? Just what I said previously, if you go through a canister zone you must have an approved canister. I don't like the damn things, especially for trip to Trail Camp, but then I might have a companion who blows out a knee and we have to stop at Outpost Camp for a night...where there is a need and requirement for a canister. It makes logical sense and the answer was duplicated.

When I walk off the trail at Whitney Portal as a day hiker, I will most like have in my pack some Jerky, a Clif Bar, some crackers and hard candies. If stuck out over night this stuff would be gonzo. Also, the chance are you would be in distress and someone at one of the trail camps would be tending to your needs, including putting your extra food in one of their canisters.

If we move away from the Whitney setting my guess is 99.99999% of day hikers make it back to the trailhead before beddy-bye time.

Hey, you never know what can happen. I would say at least 1 dayhiker out of 1000 gets stuck on the Whitney trail. Can't protect too much from the bears, and anyway why should the day hikers get off light? Let's get a petition going to make them lug them up too. Fair is fair... [sarcasm]

Oh, yeah. This is a really serious conversation. Once every few years a bear is sighted in the San Gabriel Valley. Let's start a petition to make everyone who enters the San Gabriel Valley carry a bear canister. After all, why should they get off light?

Dude,

ain't even read the other replies yet, but have you ever heard of a "resupply" . . . you don't need to do the JMT in nine days, just because you can't fit all your food in the "ranger box" or whatever you call it.

Bear canisters are all about the bears and they're a pretty good thing to have out there. not only do you thwart the bears, but you save a lot of time and energy in not having to screw around, tossing a rock and cord up into a tree every night (only to have the bear get it anyway) . . . I do have to say, that some of the rangers are a little too pushy, like it's enough maybe that you ask and I say, yes, I have a canister––maybe I tap it for you, or show you the top, but you're a little annoying (and you know who you are) when you ask me to take it out and show you . . . anyway, off to read the other posts. get a bear can: buy one or just rent, and relax.

I can't parse this. I never made any wise-ass comments.



As clear as that may be in your mind, it isn't clear in the regs as available on-line; to repeat from above (note the OR clause):
"Through hikers along the Pacific Crest Trail and the John Muir Trail with a valid wilderness permit must use portable, park approved, bear-proof food storage containers or camp at sites with food storage lockers and use the lockers"




Your answer may have been duplicated, but that doesn't make it correct.

As long as we're repeating things: as I've said, I'll carry a canister, even in areas with no real requirement (e.g. Shepherd Pass), mainly to keep out marmots. But my personal preference is not the issue.

Never said you made wise a$$ comments, I said I did with people in the RS and IVC. I wanted to make sure I got the correct answer.

Duplicated answers may not be correct but I'll take the odds that they are.

The problem with the Inyo is they make things more complicated than they really should be...especially the MMWT.