Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Final verdict on "Spot" please

The satellite vendor tests the satellite links with their own transmitter to get their 99% number. When the SPOT is used as part of the link YMMV.

SPOT is a commercial product with no published standard for minimum requirements. What you get this week is what comes out of the factory this week. If they decide to use an antenna from a different supplier to build SPOTs this week, the choice is theirs. There is no power output or antenna directionality performance standard. That is just how non-standardized commercial products are. There is also no standard for user interface. This is different from compas-sarsat PLBs that can be produced by multiple vendors but must all meet the same performance standard to be 'type accepted' for legal sale.
SPOTs are cheaper that PLBs. There are reasons for it.

Performance of the system of SPOT -and- satellites is not as good as the performance of the satellite with the satellite vendor's choice of transmitter. No surprise there.

Dale B. Dalrymple
http://dbdimages.com

Richard,

I ran another test of my SPOT with a clear view of the sky and no clouds. The track test ran for 22.67 consecutive hours. The results were that 65% of the sent messages were received which essentially agrees with my last posted test. The longest dead time when no messages were received was 50 minutes which only happened once. The next longest period was 40 minutes which also happened twice. There were nine times when no messages were received for 30 minutes and 17 times when the time between messages was 20 minutes. Finally there were 58 messages received where the time between messages was 10 minutes.

My conclusion so far is that the vendor claim of virtually every message being delivered is way overreaching – not even close. So far I believe that 65% delivery will be good enough as to where to send in the cavalry in case of an emergency. At least the SPOT unit by sending “OK”, “Track”, and “Help” messages allows the unit to be tested short of the “911” button. The “OK” and “Track” messages will make the people at home feel better if they know that only about 25% of the messages probably will get through. (I hope)

My 65% result is in the ballpark with other users and testers. When I can get around to it I will do the coning tests and some cloud tests. It is now time to get ready to head off to southern Utah for some serious hikes!

Dale I know that the SPOT is not to be viewed as a replacement for a PLB and that PLB manufacturing specifications are much more stringent than for a SPOT (I use to deal with MIL SPEC testing at times). If I was doing real serious mountaineering, especially in winter, our group would be carrying at least two PLBs along with a SPOT, but those days are in my rear view mirror. I have had enough close calls.

I love mine. It makes my wife much more comfortable with my long, solo, overage hiking. I assume I'll never the 911 feature, but who knows. Batteries last forever, at least if you turn it off when not actively transmitting. Occasionally fails ot send a message, so I send 2 OKs per day and at least 1 has always gone thru (and almost always both of them).

That seemingly-low percentage of messages received may not be as significant as it appears.

A failure, with regard to SPOT, would mean that one individual attempt to send out has failed. Ie, you press the button to call for help, and the message (for whatever reason) doesn't get through.

But...in 911 mode, SPOT keeps sending out messages every (I forget the exact number) such-and-such number of minutes. So even if only 50% of them get through, your help call still has an overwhelming likelihood of reaching the proper authorities.

Bottom line: in my opinion, that's all that matters. I don't care if SPOT drops half my tracking or okay messages. I just want to know that help will come if I press the 911 button.

I have to say, I do hate carrying my SPOT. It's extra weight I don't need, I don't like the idea of carrying "connections to civilization" when I'm trying to get away in the backcountry. I'd rather leave it at home.

But...

I've also decided to renew my subscription. I go out solo a lot, and my wife likes it when I check in now and then. It also allows more hiking flexibility, as you can keep sending "OKAY" messages if you're traveling slower than expected without your SO panicking when you don't call on time as promised.

Make sure you get the full range of opinions on the device, and then make your own decision.

Andy

Article and a press release about a new SPOT device:

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterson/54879

http://findmespot.com/en/pressroom/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=315:spot-unveils-next-generation-satellite-gps-messenger-at-outdoor-retailer&catid=23:press-room&Itemid=45

We just ran another test of my SPOT which was mounted on top of my daypack. The hike was for 8.5 hours and only 4% of the tracking messages were received. A good part of the hike was in very thick tree cover in a canyon, the rest was somewhat in the open. There were some scattered cumulus clouds that drifted by from time to time. The only messages (two) that got through were the ones where we were in the open on a ridge. This is more or less what I expected (I am very familiar with all the technology involved).

My results so far are: with the unit stationary and with all sky visibility ~65% of the tracking messages get through. With the unit moving on the top of my daypack and with all sky visibility ~40% of the tracking messages get through. In a canyon with trees, basically no tracking messages get through unless I climb up on a ridge.

In summary, if either of us really needs help, the other will take the SPOT to a nearby open area, lay it level on a rock and punch the “help” button. Enough messages will get through to bring in the cavalry!

At least 98% of "track" signals went thru. Everyone on the list was pleased with watching progress. Spot was located on my chest, and tucked in the mesh back pocket of a summit pack. No problems.

Also been considering the SPOT--can someone give me some brand names of PLB's that I can research and a quick pro/con about a PLB versus spot. In my case I am not interested in sending messages to loved ones just the help button if needed in an emergency.

Don't know the details yet and this is only anecdotal evidence, but a friend's brother became severely dehydrated in Yosemite a few days ago and activated his 911 button. She knew he was in trouble even before they found him a few hours later. This story had a happy ending.

There will be a new SPOT out this fall. Just what I've been waiting for.

http://www.globenewswire.com/newsroom/news.html?d=169409

Will people with the first generation SPOT be able to upgrade to the second generation SPOT without buying a whole new one I wonder?

Physically the new spot is considerably different than the old one. The antenna and the buttons are completely different. An upgrade package does not look practical.

If you're talking about some sort of trade-in deal I haven't seen anything in writing. Anything is possible but I'm not going to cross my fingers on that one.

My first cat was a calico!!!!!

Richard,

Thanks for the heads-up!

Thought you might want to see how reliable SPOT is when it has a clear view of the sky. This is from my climb up Orizaba. 50+ track points for an 11 hour climb. Not bad!

I have a Spot version 1, and the company told me, in response to my query, that there would be info out in November 2009 (sic) regarding special deals for Spot 1 owners to upgrade to Spot 2. Anyone else heard/or not anything? Barbara

I saw the same info about the upgrade program in one of their newletters a few months ago. I've been visiting their site on a fairly regular basis recently, but still haven't seen any additional info on when it will be implemented. (And now that I've bought another 8-pack of AA Lithium batteries, I'm not really in any rush to upgrade. The new unit is using AAA batteries to save a little weight.)

I've been thrashing around looking for methods to get GPS data from remote SAR field teams in semi-real time. At first, I thought the SPOT device, sending a signal every 10 minutes in tracking mode, didn't give good enough tracking resolution to follow a team. When I compared track data of two teams on an actual search with their GPS set to 30 second intervals and pulled one record every 10 minutes, I found that the track is, in fact, good enough. However, reading the comments here I'm thinking you could easily lose 30+ minutes of data if a signal didn't get through.

Does anyone know if, in tracking mode, the SPOT sends only the one signal, or does it keep trying until it gets through?

I sent a note to a SPOT engineer asking if there was a hack to increase the frequency of signal, but have received no reply (you'd think for the pain-in-the-ass their devices are causing SAR crews, they'd be more cooperative...).

A possibly useful phone coming out is the Terrephone:

www.terrestar.com/genus.php

This is a windows base cell/sat phone combo with GPS. This might work to track via Satellite in remote areas. There must be an app out there that will send GPS data over the phone in real time.

Finally, DOI and the Park Service are testing a gizmo:

"based on the Iridium system. This unit will track up to six seconds, is encrypted, runs a week on batteries, has two-way messaging, displays gps coordinates, and interfaces with both a voice to text and geospatial GUI. It will be tested this summer. It is about the size of a king size pack of cigarettes. There is also a separate TSO's version for aircraft and one for vehicles.

This system will also integrate will all other Iridium-based GPS devices, there are 12 under development by vendors, and the COSPAS SARSAT network."

No idea when this will be ready for prime time.

Updates as they occur.

g.

My understanding of the way it works is that it tries to send the signal out and if it doesn't hit the satellite (due to obstructions, such as a deep canyon, or a satellite not being "in range") no data will be recorded for that time. (Thus the BIG gaps in data from hikes/climbs in the Sierra.)

I'm still curious to see/hear whether SPOT2 has resolved some of the tracking issues. It's supposed to have a more sensitive GPS chip installed. (Knowing what kind of track recording I'm getting from a "sugarcube" sized photoGPS track logger, I'd think that SPOT could be a little better at what it sends out from the Sierra.) (And, if it's an issue of the receiving satellite not being "in range," Mike had the idea that they add a little bit of memory to the thing and then transmit ALL of the missed coodinates the next time it links up.)

The "Upgrade" program (rebate) has finally been announced:

http://www.findmespot.com/upgrade/?utm_campaign=SPOT%20LLC%20Newsletter%20-%20March%202010&utm_content=richard.piotrowski@yahoo.com&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=VerticalResponse&utm_term=Learn%20more%20%26gt%3B

I got the email with the link to the SPOT News Release: http://tinyurl.com/yhufm3r

I bought an "old" SPOT at a reduced, $50, price during the latest recall on the new SPOTS. Do you people on the msg board, who have used the old one, feel like the upgrade is worth it? Many of you are probably waiting to get your new ones back after the recall?

My "old" seems to work pretty well on my short hikes around the SF Bay Area, but I am mindful of the bad reviews it has received. I have followed instructions religiously and some think that is the answer to having success with the SPOT.

Might be worth having on our solo hikes into rattlesnake country!

I guess I should review all the posts on the previous 3 pages of this thread too.....