Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board If I can't self evacuate...

...what are the options?

i heard someone, somewhere along the way, say that if a person were to break their lower leg - a simple, NOT compound fracture - say on the mmwt switchbacks during the summer - and had NO head or any other injury - that "it would be a two-day trip up for the burros and a two-day trip down on the burros".

am i to believe this - seems like a long time to me - but zero experience in the burro department for me - or does this injury require being carried or supported to a chopper?

i just don't know that, for me, i could justify a chopper ride for a broken ankle. i'd give it my best on a pair of crutches. is there a medical supply company in the valley that delivers? tongue firmly in cheek, but...... is there?

and what exactly are the options?

I can't speak for the SAR (obviously BobR is the ultimate resource there), but I can tell you there is only one medical supply company in the OV: Airway Medical Supply here in Bishop. Second unfortunate piece of news is that unless they are delivering a hospital bed, they don't deliver. Period. Doesn't matter if you're 92, living alone, and unable to drive because the ankle you broke is your right one. I end up doing quite a few deliveries when I'm about seeing my patients.

While SAR does the best it possibly can to get to you, the scenario you proposed would suggest the importance of bringing everything (in terms of emergency supplies) with you. You might be uncomfortable that night, but at least you'll live.

-L

Here's a PCT hiker that ended up walking out with crutches that SAR brought up to her:

Journal

traditional walk speed on crutches is quoted as half speed of a slow walk

the PCT trail report above says she managed 1/3 mph, yes 1/3.

Sound slow? No. that fits pretty well: take a slow walk, say less than 2 mph, add rough terrain (going down is harder than up with crutches), add a few inevitable stumbles and falls (hopefully not more broken bones) and sooner or later that walk, say 6 miles down from Trail Camp, becomes an ordeal at 1/3 mph. By that math it would be 18 hours. Bring a flashlight? Increased risk of hypothermia in injured state and slower speed? Etc ,Etc, Yes, many of us have walked off injuries successfully, but then there are the opposite experiences. Choose wisely.

Not to discount the thread linked to above, but I am very skeptical that a SAR team would provide an injured person with crutches or other medical aid, and then leave them out (alone it sounded like, but regardless), in the wilderness.

Imagine the liability if the person incurred a further injury - or worse. Imagine if a second SAR mission had to be initiated to re-locate and re-rescue the same subject. Flying helicopters into the mountains is not a trivial exercise; it is extremely dangerous and not to be taken lightly. (See "Settling with Power" on Wikipedia. This can happen when helicopters fly into canyons and have no ability to move laterally out of the vortex.).

I can't imagine the subject would be given much choice in the matter once the search/rescue was initiated - unless the operation was initiated by mistake/overreaction or the injury was very, very minor.

If you were injured as described (broken leg) and SAR was called, they would evacuate you either via helicopter or by the old traditional method - carry out in a litter.

Never underestimate the determination of a PCT thruhiker. They are a different breed of hiker. In this case, apparently the SAR team understood her position and accommodated her. Note she says she "waived" the copter ride - I presume that means signing a waiver.

I have heard several stories from hikers who were there or later saw her "walk" into town on crutches, so, yes, it happened.

Don't take this wrong, but is this the most bored (not boring) group of people on earth, or what?

at least you limited to earth bound people

are you referring to the asker or the responders?

i thought i had a valid question. to me, the only stupid question is the one that's not asked.

i like being prepared. and i was trying to find out what anyone knew about the "burro" story and what a broken ankle would cost me in terms of evacuation. i'm not up for an expensive chopper ride my insurance won't pay for - if i can get out myself. and at the same time i don't believe in putting anyone's life on the line for MY broken ankle - just my opinion.

your thoughts?

I guess if you really want to be prepared, get an insurance policy that will pay for a helo ride. The extra 8 bucks I gave SPOT is supposed to get me one. Otherwise I hope I get the Navy guys out of China Lake. Maybe "shipmates" get a discount.............................................DUG

Actually it replaces some down time at work.

I've always looked at the upside of an injury being the mule ride/evac out. I can tell you from experience that you probably are not going to convince the SAR to carry you out much farther than a few 100 feet to a more convenient spot. That Stokes is heavy enough without anybody in it. Being dragged on a couple of poles down/up a rough narrow trail, is no picnic for the hurtee. They may lead you if you are ambulatory. But somebody is going to have to roust a packer, convince him its worth it to cancel out on a lucrative flat lander tenderfoot gig, get his stock to the trail head then up to you. Somebody then has to pay the packer for the use of his mount. I don't see any reason for me to help pay for anybody's house burning down...that's why we have insurance to cover the expensive rides.

When I used to take new people out into the mountains they always asked what the shovel was for...

That relieved my boredom

was that a left-handed compliment?

West Valley SAR has carried out subjects in a litter down various trails in the Mt. Baldy area (Sierra Hut, Ice House) on many, many occasions.

For various reasons (wind, weather, dark, lack of one being available to name just a few), helicopters cannot always be used. It's great when a copter can be used, but in many cases they can't. In those cases, the subject gets carried out. Yeah, it's a grueling job.

Recently there was another thread on this board about the guy who was talking on his cellphone on the Whitney Main Trail and walked off a cliff. Per the thread Inyo/China Lake SAR members carried him out to the portal from the switchbacks above Lone Pine Lake.

So, don't expect to get an E-ticket ride out. But, if you are injured, you most certainly will be gotten out in some fashion.

BTW, SAR teams currently do not charge you for rescuing you - at least in California.

Just trying to get a rise out of you guys (poke, poke). Please proceed.

This past summer in Yosemite, I saw no fewer than 7 NPS (rangers?) personnel with a stretcher having to haul a person who had a "twisted ankle" down the Mist Trail from the top of Vernal Falls. This park visitor - unfortunately, a woman!, duh, had on the silliest little slick tennis type shoes and she was extremely out of shape. Which is why (1) she slipped on the slippery steps and (2) it took at least 7 adults to haul her down.

So, at least you're thinking of going up prepared. I am sure you can find collapsable crutches if you're that worried about a broken ankle. The burro - doubt that's gonna happen.

Hi Waited until the slow down to add some tweaks to the plan, you are not on the Whitney trail. You are in a remote area on a trail, no spot, no cell and left no plan of your trip, a light Jacket, no food and Levis and a nice t-shirt a backup snickers and 6 miles back to the car ,add some snow and a storm on the way that was on a weather report. Now you are driving the boat ,what do you do?

Get comfortable and pray.

Well it depends on whether or not you watched "Man vs Wild" or "Survivor Man".

Seriously, taking the given scenario whomever this person is/was they obviously did not pre-plan accordingly.

The scenario stated "a storm on the way that was on a weather report"

You can look at this two ways:
1- An inexperienced person-didn't know or didn't think about it.
2- Over experienced person-I've seen it all, done it all, and I can handle anything. "It can't happen to me"

Life is a series of choices, or as I tell my kids a series of "risk analysis" "risk vs gain" In the fire service we say "Risk a lot to save a lot", Risk a little to save a little"

I tell mys boys that everything they do has an outcome or a result whether its good or bad. In every disaster or accident its usually a compounding of bad decisions that lead to the final outcome. The idea is to minimize the risk..

Getting back to the scenario: (Sorry for the Life Lesson!)

A simple practice or ritual of carrying the basic essentials would go along way into the self preservation of this person.

Being the uptight (saying it politely) person I am, before I took up this wonderful hobby/sport I over researched it making sure that I had minimized the risks.

In my adventures I take my day pack with everything I would normally take on any day hike regardless of the mileage. The rule is: Over a mile I take the pack and everything in it. The only difference would be maybe substituting some winter/summer gear.

Now we could poke holes in this but as stated before this is MY risk vs gain and it is for me and me only. I tend to over do it, but with a wife and two boys its worth the extra weight and insurance.

Now if Doug Sr. wanted a step by step of what to do I failed this exercise..

Ron

i am sorry for not being more specific. i did not intend this to become a what-if thread.

i wanted to know if the burro evacuation story was real or not.

was my leg being pulled?

are burros used for evacuation?

and so far, no one seems to have a definitive answer for that.

moosetracks - thank you for your medical supply answer. that was the answer i was looking for.