Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Lottery mail poll

Our Inyo National Forest contact asked if we might conduct an informal poll regarding what people would prefer regarding mailing responses. So here goes....

Would you prefer that all mail be held until everything is processed, and then have it all hauled to the post office the same day? It was done this way in years past.

Or would you prefer the way it is this year, with replies mailed as entries are processed, in "streaming mode"?

Your comments as well as your vote are invited.
 

Lottery mailing preference single choice
	Hold mail until done, then mail all on the same day.
	Mail out results as they are completed throughout the process.
Votes accepted starting: 04/05/09 05:31 AM
View Results

Here's a first comment, too:  I think I would prefer that they concentrate on mailing out the unsuccessful notices first.  Seems to me, since they lost out in the lottery, these folks should be given some preference as to finding out first.

I am not involved in the lottery process, so that may not be feasible, but I thought I'd at least ask.

On a related note, I can see from the lottery processing progress, that people who mailed checks along with their lottery entry (and were successful getting a reservation) got processed more quickly. Lots more people will be sending checks next year. ...I know it's tough to carry an uncashed check in my checking balance register for two months, but I'd do it anyway if I knew it would help me find out sooner.

Here is an alternate suggestion (one of which I'm sure has been considered before by INF), what about conducting notifications electronically? Grant it some don't have or use email, then those notifications can be sent by mail, but why use up the monies and time it takes to mail thousands of letters? Perhaps on the application there could be a section where you "check" which form of communication you prefer to have (mail or email). I think time and money would be drastically saved this way. But all in all, I know INF peforms HARD WORK in what they do now, so bottom line, thats what counts.

SoCalBased,

This would require the Inyo National Forest to enter the 1990s. I discussed this with someone at the Reservation Line the other day, along with reserving permit, on other than the sacred MMWT.

Long story, short...don't hold your breath.

I don’t understand why the Whitney Lottery is held so late, compared to when other TH permits are available (6 months prior to start date). By holding it SO late in the season, it makes it almost impossible to have a backup option. The overnight permits for the MR, as well as Kearsarge Pass, Kennedy Meadows, and other entrances have been long gone. If one doesn’t have the flexibility to take a chance on getting a walk-in, and you don’t get selected in the Whitney Lottery, there aren’t a lot of options. Really, what are the chances that a group of 10-12 people will be able to get a walk-in permit? Maybe… if there are spaces available and if there are no other hikers who are also wanting to pick up a walk-in.

That’s a lot of IF’s for people to travel a long ways and take time off work. I envy the locals… not just for their close proximity to the Sierra.

I’m just frustrated with this process ( you’ve probably guessed that I’ve still NOT heard anything on my lottery application, and nerves are getting pretty taut.)

I love and respect the hard working people running the lottery, but our family has Summer of '09 on hold waiting for the results, which is starting to make my wife quite displeased with me. We have four other trips to plan, including my own climb of Mt Rainier, and nothing can be scheduled as of April 5th due solely to the delay in the Mt. Whitney results. A move to January, or even November, would help. Camps are getting booked up, flights are getting sold out, and a general air of displeasure is creeping into the homes of thousands of hikers. Half of the winners only have about 90 days to notice of their results. Did I mention I love the lottery people? (just in case our names are available)

I know this isn't going to be a popular response, but, maybe there should be a preference to hikers that have not hiked Whitney in the last 3 years....! I see several hikers that have been accepted for may years in a row, while others have never hiked Whitney. I'm sure you can see that my party was rejected, so yes, I had to break the news to my wife and kid, who have really looked forward to this. We'll still go up and see if we can get a day permit, but with my wife's work schedule and my kids college, it's not easy to plan.

Is the permit issue a big deal for people who wanted but were denied overnight permits, or for those and day permits? Aren't day permits relatively easy to come by during the season?

AS of right now I know I have a permit, but for when I do not know yet. I hope to receive my letter in a day or so. I believe we should all get notices about the same time and so voted that way. Some of us are coming from a long ways, such as Virginia and New Hampshire, just in my group. You may wonder why distances make a difference, well it does. We are not familiar with the area and have to make plans for flights, car rentals, and a hotel. I would like to think I can still get reservations. I know there are times when rooms are not available in Lone Pine, such as during the annual film festival. It's a small place or perhaps I have missed something in my research over the pass winter. But, if I was one of the last to be notified, my odds would be less. I like the idea of people over a certain age get notified first, but would not support the idea. Who is to say, I may outlive some of the younger people that I would move ahead of in the queue, if such rule was in place.

Charlie -
I agree with you. Travel is a concern. We don't have the luxury of living within the vicinity of (or an hour or two) away from Whitney. Granted, we are in San Francisco and its still a long drive to Lone Pine from up here. We just can't take the chance and drive down and see if there are any permits and a hotel room available because if there aren't then what? We don't "wing it" when we travel. We do have permits for a day hike but have not received the letter yet. Once I get the letter, I can book a room. We need to plan to be in LP 1.5 or 2 days before so we can acclimatize so we are looking at getting a hotel room for 3 nights. We are planning to head to LP very early on a Thurs AM and driving back to San Francisco on Sunday-with the hike being on Saturday. That is our window- we don't have much wiggle room with our days because of other responsibilities. If we didn't get permits, we were gonna plan to fly to Colorado and climb a 14er there as my boyfriend has family there so we had a place to stay. I know folks say walk ins are available but I think logistics come into play for a lot of people - especially if flights need to be planned.

I too agree with an earlier lottery date. I have not heard either way on my application (any 2 day overnight between 6/19/09 and 8/17/09) and have my summer and 2 other trips on hold.

Where is the option for doing away with the lottery and trail quotas?

Other than that, I like Bob R's idea.

Move it down to 55, and I'm on this! Also, also, ultralightweighters wear the trails a LOT less.

Though I feel for those who did not get in to this year's lottery, I have to say that I think that a completely random lottery (such as this one) is as fair as fair can be - unless I don't get in and then it's probably an inherited right wing conspiracy and that Bush guy and his John Birchers are certain to be at fault. Even out of office that guy is messing up stuff up and putting his nose where it doesn't belong. Can a guy get a break?

As to the notifications: I think mailing out all the successful notices at the same time gives everyone similar odds at securing campsite reservations. As to:



How about non-resident aliens having the same odds at being drawn as you? They are not paying taxes and their reservation fees are the same. I think premium quota hikes could be handled similar to drawings for premium big game hunts. Preference point options for those who don't get drawn and higher fees for non-residents. Just my two cents.

Wow, that is a great point that I'd not considered! the early notified have a huge advantage in making those arrangements.

The permits are issued thru Inyo National Forest so we're all contributing the same tax-wise. I don't think State taxes go to support National Forests. (maybe I'm wrong... if I am, I'm sure I'll be corrected)

... but I would have paid several times over the permitting fees NOT to have to be going thru this waiting nightmare.

Sorry SteveC - this thread to gather info has turned into a "venting" venue.

> Sorry SteveC - this thread to gather info has turned into a "venting" venue.

No problem. I know this is a sensitive subject, so the comments are expected. And the poll is certainly showing preferences -- but your comments counteract the majority of the poll. Understand that Inyo NF will not necessarily change their policy based on the poll. But I'll bet this thread does lead to a discussion among their staff as to improving their policy.

I am thinking that maybe they could, in future years, invite people to include a self-addressed "Early Notification" post card with their lottery applications. The post card could have two lines: No reservation, and Reservation -- date = ________.

It would take just seconds to mark the post card, and it could be mailed the same day, or maybe all post cards could be mailed all together, as soon as the last lottery application was processed.

With such an "Early Notification" process, those wishing to be notified ASAP could go to the extra trouble and speed up the process. And, for that matter, the post card would help Inyo NF, since they would not need to create and mail an additional letter for the unsuccessful.

...just my $.02

My two cents on this actually is just a combination of two previous replies, 1. Hold the lottery earlier (Dec/Jan?) 2. Mail out all at the same time and hopefully because of #1, everyone gets their notification a bit earlier so there is no complaining that the permit office is getting wives mad because travel plans are on hold. That's kind of sad. I have a wife. If our plans were contingent on something like the lottery, we would both be on the same wavelength as far as dealing with the uncertainty and randomness of such a process. Its called, discussion. I also believe the lottery is still the only fair way. Thank goodness I am "local" (socal) so I can get to all the other GREAT trails and peaks in the Sierra.

I guess my reaction to this is that there's no crying in mountain climbing.

Any time you have a system where there are losers, there is going to be unhappiness about the process and who the winners are. I'm in the same boat as some others here ... still waiting to hear. At this point, with no hit on my checking account and nothing yet received in the mail, my hopes for a Whiteny Zone permit are starting to fade. If I don't get it, I might look into the Horseshoe Meadows approach or possibly put Whitney on hold for this year. No biggy ... I'm young enough and Whitney isn't going anywhere.

But having said that, I would throw in that there seems to be somewhat of a bias towards folks that are reasonably local to Whitney. Not California residents per se but certainly including California applicants. Let me explain. Every applicant is allowed to submit up to 10 dates. If you live close enough, you pretty much can request nearly every summer weekend and hope to get a permit for one. Coming from New York and having to make major plans for an attempt, I'm looking at far fewer potential dates. There's less flexibility ... I only requested two 3-day slots (both in late September). Not exactly a high demand period, but if I was picked after someone who had filled in all 10 slots, they could have gotten their last choice over my first choice if their name was drawn first.

I'm not complaining. It's all good. Just making an observation. Good luck to everyone still waiting to hear!!