Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Mountain Lions - run, freeze, or other?

See Scientific American article --- the comments are good, also, especially the first two.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=should-you-run-or-freeze-when-you-see-a-mountain-lion

SEEING the Mtn. Lion is the rare part. If you can see them, up close, then it means they are acting other than their normal way and might mean that they are sick, or under the influence of some stress. I have spent many hours outside, usually sleeping sans tent and only seen a Mtn. Lion once, and we probably lured it in when we were calling for coyotes and bobcats, and it was just a silhouette view as it was turning to leave, above us on a cliff. That was the reason we brought no animals in to that stand..............steve

Since moving to CA over 3 yrs ago, mountain lions have been my biggest fear. I live in SF but I know they have been sighted on the peninsula, Mt. Diablo and in and around Mt. Tam - all places I hike. People always says its rare to see one but I'm the one always looking up on rocks and behind me. I'm only 5'6" and 116 pounds - I probably don't look to intimidating to mtn lions....but I never hike alone. Hopefully we don't run into any this summer while hiking up Whitney in the dark when we leave at 3 or 4 AM...

I was on a local hike 3 weeks ago in the mountains behind Santa Barbara - it's 10 miles up to 4500 ft. Little Pine Mountain - and I came across fresh Lion prints.
It,s the first time I felt uncomfortable on that trail.
I was alone and it was getting to dusk by the time I got back to my car.
We had a big back country fire 2 years ago and I guess a lot of deer, bears and lions
moved in nearer the city.
I think I will cut back on the local solo hiking and camping trips!

NJB - I hike a lot in the hills above SB as well and mt. lions are the only thing that really bother me as far as danger is concerned. A couple winters ago I was hiking alone in Yosemite and saw some fresh lion tracks in the snow. Freaked me out the entire hike. After that I started to carry a very sharp sheath knife on the sternum strap of my camelbak whenever I'm hiking alone. It's better than any other weapon I can think of having when a cat has the back of your head (its' preferred target)or neck in its' jaws.

if you hike in cougar country then it is certain the cougars have seen you and most likely followed you for some distance. i wouldnt worry too much though, attacks are pretty rare and if you are going to get attacked you will not even see it coming.

Frankly my take-away from the article and other discussions on this board is to hike in packs, and, make sure you're not the slowest!

Also, from other discussions on this board: keep the smallest among you somewhere other than at the end of the pack, which is a visual signal to the predator.

The presence of mountain lions in the Sierra is a fact of life. However, I do not believe it should be a deterent to the satisfaction of solo hiking. Just like encounters with an aggressive bear, or accidentally stepping on a rattlesnake, or stumbling over a cliff, encountering a mountain lion is something that can happen. One of the reasons wilderness travel is referred to as adventure.

I carry relatively sharp trekking poles, and pepper spray - and a pack that extends above my neck. I have also thought through the "what ifs" - and have decided that I would never turn my back on the critter. And if jumped from behind, fight like hell and hopefully be able to stab with the trekking pole.

Probably a bit naive, but after surviving a long career as a pilot, I'm convinced that certain aviation emergency procedures are written only to keep the pilot occupied until he dies - and that is ok.

Mountain lions seem to like to dine on kids and small adults. Too many times I've come upon groups where the adults have let the kids jump into the lead, off by thenmselves. Trying to explain to the adults the fact that lions are a remote but real danger usually meets with a "don't tell me what to do" attitude.

I recall a rash of mountain lion incidents in San Diego County about 15 years ago. An experienced female hiker was found dead and partially eaten in Cuyamaca Rancho State Park. Needless to say, that lion was hunted and killed. Not long after, another lion faced off with some people on horseback in the Laguna Mountains here. They came out of that situation okay, but reported that the lion didn't seem intimidated by them and their horses at all. Also, I remember reading several years ago about a study of collared lions in the San Diego backcountry (by someone at UC Davis, I think). By tracking the whereabouts of the animals and correlating with time of day, the study concluded that lions are commonly hanging out (probably snoozing) within a hundred yards or so of heavily used trails in Cuyamaca and people are almost never aware of them - which is probably not true of the lions! In 30 years of hiking (commonly solo) in prime lion habitat (and sometimes looking over my shoulder), I've never seen one though I believe I heard one once at night while backpacking in the San Jacintos; I stoked up the campfire and stood a little closer to it, wishing I had night vision.

I honestly do not worry about animals at all in the sierras other then pesky food annoyances...

A trip I did a few weeks ago from Walkers Pass to Chimney Creek I saw a massive amount of Mountain Lion tracks perhaps 10 different sets or more and I was solo but it just is what it is and I didn't worry at all, maybe I just have the "if they attack and kill me so be it attitude" but it's just too rare to see one and even less to be attacked, too many people in our country live in fear of things that statistically are a non issue yet the things they are most likely to be killed by is often not given a second thought.

9 out of 10 people that I mention that I hike to always ask right away "do you take a gun with you" because they fear being attacked by people or animals on the trail with the former being the more common worry.

What sort of hollywood or establishment brain washing have people been inputted with when your number one worry is being murdered on the trail? but without digressing further if this was Alaska with massive brown bear walking around that have bad attitudes to begin with and other animals such as moose that will kill you some times on sight then sure I would feel uneasy as I hiked through the raw wilderness and I probably would take a powerful firearm with me just in case but the sierras? naw...

I do find the idea though of contemplating running from a mountain lion quite comical because even if you didn't know that as a cat it's instinct is to chase a fleeing animal where exactly do you think your going to get to? you couldn't out run a house cat and your going to try and out run a 200 pound mountain lion while you have a full pack on?

"What sort of hollywood or establishment brain washing have people been inputted with when your number one worry is being murdered on the trail?"

Actually up here in the PNW (near Portland and Seattle), it seems that two to three people are killed by strangers every year (on a trail). I wish it were mythology, but it is not. It seems to be a larger problem when the trails are within 50 miles of a large metropolitan area.

I had an experience with a mountain lion four years ago, about 1 1/2 miles above Little Yosemite Valley. It was app. 3:00am, and I was hiking alone. I would stop every 10-15 minutes to check my surroundings and found it laying under some manzanita bushes app. 50 feet away. It was checking my out. I tried banging my trekking poles together and blowing my whistle but to no avail. It then made a move toward me and I put my back to the largest tree I could find. Once there I tried to make myself look larger than life. I took out my emergency blanket and opened it up and wrapped it around me extending out with my poles. During this whole thing, I never took my high powered head lamp out of its face. I wanted to know exactly where it was at all times!! It never once snarled at me, but this went on for a good half hour. Finally, it just wandered away, but I stayed with my back to that tree for another 30 or so minutes when I heard voices coming up the trail. I went back to my car and thought myself very lucky to have seen that lion, with both of us walking away for another day. The last thing one doesn't want to do is run. It would be all over you in a heart beat. It will always count for one of the most awesome experiences I have ever had.

Bobd

Here's an article I found awhile ago on mountain lion attacks:

http://tchester.org/sgm/lists/lion_attacks.html

What I'd really like to see is follow up on some of the recent attacks, such as the mountain biker here in Orange Conuty a few years ago - that seemed a little odd, and the news media dropped the topic after printing sensational stories of the attack, then milking it for a few days for all the sentimental stories of family loss, etc.

I've only enconutered one once in +30 years of backpacking, and that was in eastern Nevada when I was on a backpacking trip. It ran away after looking at me for a few seconds. Never thought it or myself were scared, but we were just curious about each others' presence.

The most interesting thing I take from this study (and it might be totally wrong) is that apparently many of these people did see the cat before it attacked - else how did they come to the conclusion to run or freeze?

Or maybe I just read the article too fast, since I have not yet filed my 2008 taxes.

I saw my first mountain Lion in January on Badden-Powell. I made a turn toward an end of switchback and cat was 100-150' away. I was by myself and I stayed still. When the cat turned away, I took a couple of steps back and continued to do the same until we were out of each other's sight.

I was not as scared as much as I thought I would be...but the cat did not come down the trail toward me, either.

I found a dead one in Fall Canyon, DV

http://picasaweb.google.com/ph.spanos/DeathValley2005#5094955658259841794

The closest I was to a mountain lion was about a foot or two. I never saw it, never heard it, but did see all its fresh tracks all around my sleeping bag in the morning. (I did hear the horse it chased through our camp at 2 in the morning though, and when I saw the tracks knew why the horse had been freaked out.)

i am not an expert but i had friends who raised african lions and i "played" with them for years. this is my two cents...

bob d was right-on in his reaction to the lion! large cats always attack from the rear or side. never turn you back on one. even when i played with them if they had an opportunity to jump on my back they did, in play.

if you encounter a mtn lion, face them, make yourself large (hands up), make noise and try not to appear scared. DO NOT RUN! they will chase you...

keeping your back to the tree and raising your blanket over your poles was very wise, bob d.

i have had friends encounter mountain lions while mtn biking more times that i can count and "thankfully" none of them have had a lion get aggressive. they peddled away safely. i met the gal that was attacked several years ago in Orange County. she still rides. she realizes how random and infrequent attacks are and still loves the sport.

Back in the mid nineties I did a trip over New Army Pass and up Rock Creek Canyon. On the first day in after New Army Pass and just before turning off the side trail to Soldier Lake, I saw one at a distance intently watching a group of deer. It paid no heed to me, but I felt reassured having my trusty old P38 with me....for "just in case".....At Soldier Lake I slept better that night....

Adrian

I've been reading this thread with interest, because I think I encountered a mountain lion on the main trail a few years ago.

It was July 2005. I had summited Whitney, and was very near the end of the trek. I'm a little weird about numbers, I remember being on Switchback #6. In otherwords, the fifth switchback past North Fork of the creek (the first is the one where you're going the wrong way at first).

Anyway, it was about 12:30 a.m. on Switchback 6. You might know it. I sat down on a flat rock, my legs were pretty much history, I had started the hike at 7:30 a.m., I have no guilt about starting so late because fun is first. Anyway, I reached the summit around 4 p.m., came back down and now it's 12:30 a.m. Needless to say, I hike slow. It was fun meeting hikers on the way up between 11 p.m. and midnight.

At this particular switchback #6, there is a rock to the left (west as you head down). It stands between the two pins of the hairpin. I sat down on a flat rock at the hair part of the pin to relax my rapidly deteriorating knees.

Sitting there, with my dumb little Harbor Freight headlamp, I see a glittering bluish-green candy wrapper. I say, damn day hikers leaving candy wrappers.

I take another look. Two bluish-green candy wrappers. They are not candy wrappers. They are eyeballs.

I stared for about 30 seconds or so, then realized an animal was staring at me. I figured it was a bear. But usually bears run away from humans.

I yelled, "Hey, what do you think you're doing there!" at the top of my lungs. Then I went "GRRRRRRRRRR" in my deepest voice.

What ever it was, looked calmly down the trail (where I was going) and then looked right back at me. I barely made out an outline of a head. It wasn't a bear.

I got my ass off that rock, clanged my trekking poles bang bang bang and yelled "Get the " well you know. And I left. Downhill, down the trail, past that rock.

The big rock between the pins of the hair was still there. I went a few yards down toward the trailhead and looked back, and no more beady eyes. So I either scared a bear or a mountain lion. Deer don't stare at you at 12:30 a.m.

Take the story for what it's worth. I had my camera put away because it was after dark, and my headlamp was waning as far as battery power. I know what I saw, and I don't care to see it again. Unarmed, anyway.