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WOW!!! I never DREAMED, lil ol me would have gotten you to write such a response.
Why? Because I only write about flowers and rainbows and magic and unicorns in the backcountry? Sorry, guess this fish had to grab onto the worm you dangled and conflict in opinion. Frankly, I'm tired of holding my tongue for the sake of seeing something "just go away". By not posting, we become the ostriches with heads in the sand that you describe at the end of your original post. Unfortunately, you missed or read into far more than I was intending.
I NEVER intended to direct any of my feelings or comments to SAR or anyone affiliated with them. I wrote about the impact of the written word just for reasons/situations just like this.
It appears you are implying that was directed at person(s) who write on this board?? Wrong! I was only trying to point out to people just how hard it is to convey messages and stories in this particular medium. If that is the case, then part of the requirement of keeping it clear is to fully explain that. A single sentence of "I'm not referring to anyone here, just making a blanket statement" should suffice. If you want to be clearly understood, then it is on you to make it so. As for feeling that I was some how "dissed"(see Meat of Matter) over not being able to find information about Wade is ABSOLUTELY MISPLACED.. Again, watch what you say: However, as it seems to apply to Wade's passing I was more than suprised to find what I first thought was a LACK of information. Only after digging around did I find more information. And as for bulldog: Because people are (1) humans with an inborn curious streak, and (2) conditioned by the media to expect instant details on any story of interest. To both of you, frankly, sit back, relax, and wait, just like the rest of us, for accurate information as it is released from 1) the family or 2) appropriate SAR. Just because you want to know, and know right now, doesn't mean you will get your way. quillansculpture hit the nail on the head with the "possessive" issue, so I don't need to rehash. Why don't you put up a gate in Bridgeport and at the 395-14 merge and keep the rest out ??? I didn't know the county's emergency preparedness plans had been made public yet... Hmmm... better get the H1N1 vaccine.. Sounds like you got a jump on the Scotch before you started your message. Why don't you come down to A-16 with Kurt and we can continue this over, Cocktails, Valium or any other "medicine".. Little known fact: I don't drink during the week (except for the glass of wine over dinner with DougSr Wednesday night). This tirade was brought to you by COMPLETELY SOBER. Hurling epithets does not progress the debate, it simply reveals the weaknesses of the thrower. And I don't need liquid courage to speak my mind. Better yet, why don't you come up here? I'll leave a note at the toll booth to let you through.
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Robbie, you FUCKING slay me!
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What toll booth?, AAA knows nothing re. a 'toll-booth' & says I am uninformed..... Is it a 'local' thing?............steve
p.s., does 'rhyang' have the inside scoop re. what happens at the 'locals toll-booth'???
Last edited by Passinthru; 11/13/09 07:08 PM. Reason: slow witted old brain
When I get a little money, I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes.
Erasmus
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Hey Moosie, just so we're clear - I wasn't defending or justifying the insatiable need to know everything now by most people. I was just commenting on the "why" that you had posed. Right, wrong or indifferent, it's mostly a product of the instant gratification environment we now live in. It shouldn't be a surprise.
Re Wade, my personal curiosity was pretty much satisfied by the family's release of information on their blog. Wade died from a long fall and we'll never really know the rest of the story. Rest in peace, Wade. There are worse ways to check out than on Whitney.
And I'm a vodka-tonic kinda guy, so save some for me when I get there in February.
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what happens at the 'locals toll-booth'??? Hint: bribe the guards 
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I tried to delete my post, as it apparently offends some people.
The system does not allow this, so I've edited it out.
I hope that is acceptable to those who disagree.
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Here's the day I was caught in a traffic jam at the Bridgeport crossing. 
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My oh my, that is a LARGE road sign !!!
When I get a little money, I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes.
Erasmus
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Nice Photoshop!
Journey well...
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So... I've been away since August. What's new? Did I miss anything?
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Doug's sandbox - Doug's rules!
Don't like it? Pay for and build your own.
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Thank you Moosie; well said. As BobR and other SAR vets can attest, it is usually the case that SAR personnel are not allowed to share information either with the general public or the media, unless that information has been provided by the local law enforcement agency, and then it is the responsible agency's duty to provide that information in a timely manner.
Many, many times, local media reporters approached us for the "inside scoop" on SAR operations, and we always directed them to the local Sheriff SAR coordinator. Whenever family or friends were present at the base camp or near one of our radios, we were very careful not to say anything they might over-hear regarding the fate of their loved-one...unless was really good news; all information to them regarding the SAR was provided by the Sheriff's dept. For example, when locating a dead person, the field team was careful to call an "11-44" situation: "coroner required", never "hey, we found a dead guy." I recall having to almost physically restrain an uncle from going up to "help" us search for a young man missing on Whitney; his need was strong, but we didn't want to have to deal with another missing person.
It is an understandable human need to know all we can about someone in distress in our mountains, but there are ethical and legal limits to what can be shared. When information is available you will probably be informed about it in the normal way: in the media. Be satisfied with that, and stifle the need to press for information that probably is none of your business.
Just be glad you are not the dead or injured person and can, perhaps, learn valuable lessons in order to prolong your own enjoyment of the mountains. Climb on and be happy!
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"It IS frustrating to think that there are "those in the know", who, knowing what happened, will be able to take precautions to protect themselves on the trail, but will not avail that information to others. I would hope that would not be the case, and prefer to think that it is not....but that is probably because I personally know a number of principals in the equation. However, others do not, and have no basis of drawing conclusions." Ken
Ken,
I find it mind boggling that you or anyone else could foster even the thought that people would withhold information as you suggest.
'
Last edited by Mike Condron; 11/14/09 11:51 AM. Reason: To clarify.
Mike
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This has got to be the most mis-named topic I have seen. Which is great!
climbSTRONG
"Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing" -Helen Keller
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"It IS frustrating to think that there are "those in the know", who, knowing what happened, will be able to take precautions to protect themselves on the trail, but will not avail that information to others. I would hope that would not be the case, and prefer to think that it is not....but that is probably because I personally know a number of principals in the equation. However, others do not, and have no basis of drawing conclusions." Ken
I find it mind boggling that one could foster even the thought of this.
'
I think you will find it answers this most of your questions. This thread was never about answering those questions.
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It IS frustrating to think that there are "those in the know", who, knowing what happened, will be able to take precautions to protect themselves on the trail, but will not avail that information to others. I would hope that would not be the case, and prefer to think that it is not....but that is probably because I personally know a number of principals in the equation. However, others do not, and have no basis of drawing conclusions.
Remember that we live in a society where it is often seen that problems are hidden and not spoken of, even when the problem is outrageous. I suppose that we are trained by that experience.
Maybe this will help (and I didn't even have to torture a SAR dude(or dudette)for the info) 1. Start Time/Pacing 2. Turnaround Time 3 Self Awareness (do I need to abort) 4. Hiking Buddy for Insurance 5. Conditions (weather/length of daylight) If you are looking for more convoluted/clandestine "precautionary" info, I doubt that even if it exists, it will help your protection on the trail. (There are just some things that we don't need to know)
The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.
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The Moose,The Moose, The Moose is on FIRE!
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Doug's sandbox - Doug's rules!
Don't like it? Pay for and build your own. Hmmm . . . sounds vaguely familiar. I'm thinking. Give me a minute and I'll come up with it . . .
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Hello folks,
I was the Operations Chief for the search of Mr. Brunette from the Inyo County side, during the search I did utilize this site to assist our planning and investigation aspect of this search. I was the person who directed the family to this site. The reasoning being it helped them to know that so many people cared and it allowed them a forum to share information and express their gratitude towards the many SAR personal that were helping.
I was never insulted by any suggestions people made as to where to look. I am not so proud as to say "we got it covered I do not want your input", to the contrary I applaud it and will always welcome it here on this site.
As far as posting pictures of SAR Operations, I simply request you use common sense. DO NOT SHOW GORE. DO NOT SHOW individual SAR member’s faces. Most importantly if you believe it may help an investigation or search; contact the Sheriff's Office first!
I want to remind everyone many of the SAR teams in this state are volunteer, which means if you have a desire to help others in need in the mountains, then seek out a local team and give what you can. Time is the most precious commodities that SAR members give up.
Please feel free to contact me with any questions.
Tim
“Confidence is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking tarter sauce with you.”
Zig Zigler
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You just proved my point :-)
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