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That was a hellva storm. I spent it up at Trail Camp.
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sorry about July 11 - that was our hike start - the storm was on July 12, our second day out. We were at 11,000 feet, just below Donohue Pass. At the time the photo was taken we were there for 3 hours, 6" of hail piled out outside, just trying to stay warm 
Last edited by Fishmonger; 06/09/09 09:08 PM.
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If you guys could only see the horde of thru-hikers hunkered down out front of the Independence Subway right now. I'm not seeing an ice axe on a single pack. Lots of sandals and crocs, mostly trail runners near the packs (no boots). At least they're down here and not up there. And it's DUMPING over Onion Valley right now, btw... 
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WOW, this hiker is lucky she's not dead.
I met a man once about a 1/4 mile from the summit of Whitney and he was carrying, in his little day pack, a tent, extra jacket, plastic, sterno, food you get the pic.His trailhead that morning was outpost.
Haveing growen up in these mountains, i did not querri as to why he brought this stuff, my buddys did, but i refraned.i relized this guy wanted to HAVE FUN!Dead ain't fun.
This is an immediate enviroment.When it's good, it's good right now and when it's bad it gets bad quick.I have talked about this subject till i'm blue with people who have spent alot of time in the high country.It just baffels me.Bad things happen to good, experienced, knowledgeable, righteous people in the mountains and i miss them.
D7
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If you guys could only see the horde of thru-hikers hunkered down out front of the Independence Subway right now. ...Lots of sandals and crocs, mostly trail runners near the packs (no boots). Someone needs to direct them to the Hot Springs.....or not. 
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2. When she was trying to set up camp, she mentioned a bivy sack plus a tarp. Ok, if the bivy is 1.5 to 2 pounds and the tarp is at least another pound, what's the point? My Walrus sumer tent is 3.25 pounds, less than a pound more than what she was carrying and a whole lot better shelter if it snows.
A good bivy can be as light as 8.5 ounces, a good tarp as light as 7.5, for a total of 1 pound, not 3.5 pounds. (My heaviest bivy is a Lightsabre at 24 ounces = 1.5 pounds.) Although I don't use a bivy and tarp in shoulder-season weather, I know people who do, even in the snow. If you know how to use them properly, you can stay as warm as in a tent. But you do have to know how to use them properly; otherwise, reserve them for the height of summer, when mistakes won't be as serious.
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2. When she was trying to set up camp, she mentioned a bivy sack plus a tarp. Ok, if the bivy is 1.5 to 2 pounds and the tarp is at least another pound, what's the point? My Walrus sumer tent is 3.25 pounds, less than a pound more than what she was carrying and a whole lot better shelter if it snows. Her shelter: Mountain Laurel Designs' Soul Bivy (custom/shortened), 8.3 ounces. Integral Designs Siltarp 5X8, 7.1 ounces. So total shelter weight 15.4 ounces. I have been in similar conditions with similar equipment, no problem. Watching the snow pile up beside the tarp as I lay there warm and dry was a very relaxing way to end the day. As one who goes lighter than most, I hate to see the ultralight movement getting the blame. The problem isn't the lightweight equipment, it's knowing how to use that equipment in adverse conditions, and when your ability with that equipment is not up to the expected conditions.
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[quote=Alan] The problem isn't the lightweight equipment, it's knowing how to use that equipment in adverse conditions, how do you use sandals best in adverse conditions?
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how do you use sandals best in adverse conditions? Strapped to the back of your pack while your boots keep your toes toasty and non-frostbitten... just my guess at least...
"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." -Marcel Proust
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Last September I hiked up to Trail Camp with some friends who were going to summit the next day. Every day had seen increasingly long thunder/snow storms, but it was a beautiful day and I was just going up for a day hike, so I was tempted to go lighter than I usually do. I finally decided to pack my usual long-day-hike safety gear, which is intended to get me through an unanticipated bivy. As fate would have it, I stayed a bit late as the storm was rolling in, trying to help someone solve an equipment problem (they left the tent poles at home!). It was the worst and longest storm of the week, and I ended up running for it in very alarming conditions, not sure if I could make it all the way down. I was physically comfortable in the conditions, and really pleased that I had made the right decision about equipment. I am still not clear in my mind about the decision to run for it in the existing conditions (high wind, poor visibility, trail disappearing), but that is another discussion. It was the first time I have been caught in a storm like that, and it sure reinforced my “paranoia” (as some of my friends call it) about safety.
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how do you use sandals best in adverse conditions? Strapped to the back of your pack while your boots keep your toes toasty and non-frostbitten... just my guess at least... On a Trans-Sierra dayhike (Clover Meadow to Mammoth) One of my Tevas strapped to the pack jumped ship. I told the west-bound crew to keep an eye out, & guess who found it? SteveC! Guess it was a warmup for the memory chip.
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On a Trans-Sierra dayhike (Clover Meadow to Mammoth) One of my Tevas strapped to the pack jumped ship. I told the west-bound crew to keep an eye out, & guess who found it? SteveC! Guess it was a warmup for the memory chip. Wagga... you were just helping to hone SteveC's eagle eyes... he needs challenges like that occassionally... 
"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." -Marcel Proust
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Two days ago, I talked to the hiker whose problems started this thread. She had switched from sandals to trail runners and had promised her family to always walk with a companion. (One was with her when we talked.) It was on a rainy morning Tuesday just north of Evolution Valley. Her spirits seemed good. I told her that, though I thought she made some mistakes, she showed a lot of determination. (She grimaced a bit ruefully and then smiled.) I told her that her June 2 posting helped me decide to delay a half-day on my passage over Selden Pass a few days earlier to await some clearance of threatening weather. She liked that. BTW, weather continued miserable in the Sierra NF part of the PCT thru Tuesday. It was clearing yesterday.
John Ladd - San Francisco
PCT Trailname: The Sicilian
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Trail runners - now we're talking solid footwear suited for cold and wet conditions
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Well, at least they looked better than the sandals. (But I agree with you - nothing better than good boots lovingly waterproofed and well broken in).
John Ladd - San Francisco
PCT Trailname: The Sicilian
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One vote for a bivy. I've really like my Black Diamond Lightsabre, one of the more substantial versions of the bivy. It's great in snow because it is very warm when all zipped up. And I just used it for 8 days (June 9-17) in almost daily rain without a problem. Like all bivys, it has some condensation inside when fully zipped up. The hooped design (one hoop at the foot, and an arch overhead) minimizes this but can't entirely eliminate it. It lets in virtually no rain. I did not bring a trap, but a tarp is a logical supplement to a bivy. If you can use the tarp to keep rain off your face, you can leave the bivy less "zipped up" and minimize condensation.
That said, the minimal bivy carried by this hiker provides nearwhere as much protection as the heavier Lightsabre.
John Ladd - San Francisco
PCT Trailname: The Sicilian
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Two pieces of info following up on what George Durkee reported.
This morning I talked to Doug Thompson at the store. He said that after the subject got a ride to Lone Pine from Horseshoe Meadow, she checked into the Hostel. Did not notify Inyo authorities. So SAR was still looking, the helos were still flying. Then a deputy was walking on the sidewalk near the Hostel and encountered a woman talking on her cell phone. He overheard enough to ask, "Are you (the subject)?" Of course, she was. And only then was the SAR called off. To underscore what George said, hitting 911 turns on the rescue system. Hitting OK later doesn't turn if off. The search continues until until a real person tells them it is no longer needed. From what George says, this issue is being worked.
Later, on the trail, I talked to a ranger who was involved in the search. He said the SPOT relayed the location as somewhere in the Hogback Creek drainage. That's the next canyon north of Whitney Portal. He said they were driving the roads, flashing lights, and had helicopter overflights--all in an area miles north of where the subject was. Eventually SPOT got it right, with no harm done (except for the needless expenditure of resources, looking in the wrong places). I wonder how many other instances of false locations have occurred. This one could have been critical.
Technology is wonderful when it works as it is supposed to. But technology sometimes fails, and operators sometime misuse. Two comments: - Why didn't she hit "Help" instead? (And have something like: if you see a "Help" from me and don't see an OK wihtin a couple of hours, notify authoirities" to her family/friends? (The "Help" message goes only to those you have set up to receive the message. It is explained in the SPOT manual as a choice to let friends/family know that you may be in trouble, but it is NOT a full emergency requiring SAR.) - I explained in one of the other threads on SPOT that it is know to be off on the coordinates sent up in the message. In my case, several OKs from the unit at the Portal showed up as being in Meysan Canyon.
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- Why didn't she hit "Help" instead? (And have something like: if you see a "Help" from me and don't see an OK wihtin a couple of hours, notify authoirities" to her family/friends? (The "Help" message goes only to those you have set up to receive the message. It is explained in the SPOT manual as a choice to let friends/family know that you may be in trouble, but it is NOT a full emergency requiring SAR.)
You're assuming here that the manual was actually read before implementing use of the device...
Last edited by SoCalGirl; 06/19/09 05:55 PM.
"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." -Marcel Proust
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You're assuming here that the manual was actually read before implementing use of the device... A true statement... And a sad one at that. It's unfortunate that common sense and good judgement don't seem to be things that can be taught. (Speaking in terms of mis-steps and preventable accidents that have happened recently.)
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