Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board How bad is altitude

I'm a Brit coming over to attempt a Whitney day hike in August. For training, amongst other things I've been regularly doing the Yorkshire Three Peaks, a 22 mile walk with three hills (they class as Mountains by UK standards, but they are nothing to write home about) involving some 1650m (5400ft) of ascent in total. This makes it comparable in length and ascent to the Whitney day hike. But the highest point of the Y3P is 736m (2416ft). So it is effectively at sea level.

To achieve membership of the Yorkshire Three Peaks club, one has to complete the walk in twelve hours - I am regularly doing it in seven! I'm not claiming to be ultra fit, I'm an average forty-four year old guy who keeps in shape. But clearly I'm no slouch on a walk of this scale.

What I want to know - and I realise it's a tricky question, because it depends on the individual - but what typically is the effect of altitude on performance? Does a hiker at Whitney altitudes take twice as long to do a given distance/ascent as they do at sea level? One and a half times? Three times? Are there any typical figures?

Even if you are in excellent condition the altitude will slow you down, especially if you don't arrive early and acclimate. The best thing to do would be arrive 2 or 3 days early and spend time at horseshoe meadows, onion valley, the white mountains or whitney portal. Do some easy warm up hikes to help get acclimated. The longer you spend above 8,000' before your hike the better off you will be.

Sounds like the Yorkshire Three peaks is a great training hike.

Good luck.

Thanks for the comments, and thanks for that link. I've been scouring the net for info, but had not found that (your???) page, which has it almost all in one place.

I am planning to spend a couple nights at Parchers Resort (9,200ft) before I try Whitney, and I'll do a few training hikes there.

One last question. Although I realise this may open me to derision here, I am no camper. I do not enjoy spending the night under canvas. I know, it has many joys, and I am not deprecating those who do enjoy it, maybe I'll even learn to love it as my hiking adventures take me further out and for longer.

I'd like not to waste my acclimatisation by spending the night before the hike in Lone Pine. Is it acceptable to sleep in a parked vehicle at Whitney Portal, or is such behaviour frowned upon?

Hi Doc Dee I'm from Doncaster and me and my walking team always do the Yorkshire 3 Peaks before heading off on any of our sierra walks just to make sure were in good condition; we've done whitney twice but at the end of one or two weeks walking in the sierra and so pretty well acclimatised, I would say that even well acclimatised your speed and performance will be down approx 40 to 50 %; so try and spend a few days acclimatising, its best to work high and sleep low if you can, thats the alpine way and it works. We'll be there from aug 24 to sep 14 so if your around maybe we'll see you; by the way we clocked 3 peaks at 24.5 miles but some say 26; either way its good for putting steel in your legs. Good luck and take plenty of tea bags with you; you can't get good tea or birds custard over there but you must try Dougs cheeseburgers.

I'm from Wakefield. I've done the Y3P six times in the last 10 weeks, I have two GPSes (a Garmin Edge and a Garmin Oregon) and an iPhone and they all clocks it fairly consistently at 35.5km, which is 22.06 miles. But I take the "straight up the face" route on Whernside which cuts out about 1.2 miles but makes it a more interesting walk to my mind. I've noticed some GPSes that don't have very good averaging tend to overread a little due to "jitter". Though I'm not suggesting yours is one such.

Last Year, I did once walk down to Hull Pot and up Hull Pot Beck, and the long way up Whernside and that came out at 24.6 miles.

We're going up on the 24th of August - Day Hiking, we have permits for the 25th as well if the weather prevents a 24th ascent... So may well see you.

I used to work in San Fran, so I know about the custard, tea, Cadbury's Dairy Milk and Walkers crisps scarcity. Plus the difference with American bacon. But on the flipside, I'm looking forward to Reese's Pieces, and York Peppermint Patties, plus good shakes and burgers. I've heard Doug's Cheeseburgers are excellent... but I understand we need to make good time to stand a chance of getting one. Part of my reason for asking about performance is so I know when to set off so we'll be back in time ;-)

Welcome to the Colonies, Doc Dee!

Living in the flatlands near St. Louis, MO, (our highest "mountain" in the state is only 1772.68') I'm reasonably familiar with acclimating to altitude before hitting anything of respectible height. At low altitude, I generally maintain a pace close to yours with reasonable ups and downs.

With a couple of nights at 8,000' and a dayhike to 10.5k or 11k in between, I'm reasonably prepared for higher peaks (13k and above). My son and I didn't day-hike Whitney, instead opting for a three-day backpack in 2001. (He was 12 at the time and 22 miles with 12,000' of gross vertical was beyond his range. Now that he's 20 and 4" taller than I am, well, I wouldn't care to try to keep up with him any more if he decided to set his own pace.)

For me (reasonably fit and 58), I figure 30 minutes per mile plus 30 minutes per 1,000' elevation gain. That would give me an estimate for dayhiking Whitney 5-1/2 hours (11 miles up) plus 3 hours (6,000' gain) plus another 5-1/2 hours down or a total of about 14 hours round-trip. I'd fudge in another hour or so because of the amount of the hike above 12k'. Still, starting at 03:00 or so would put me back in time for a burger at the Portal Store.

As they say on the 'net, your mileage may vary...

Good luck, climb safe and happy hiking!

DD,

I live at sea level (actually 7'), the highest point in my state is 345 feet, and I had never climbed anything in my life (age 58). My training consisted of level hiking and sessions in the gym on the stairmaster.

Accordingly, I did a slow and methodically acclimation schedule. I spent my first night in the Sierras at 6500', then worked my way to 10,000 with training hikes to 11,000'. This all felt fine for me and I progressed to sleeping at 12,000 with training hikes higher. Because I took my time I had no problems with altitude sickness. My hike up Whitney was a non-event with regards to altitude. At the summit I felt the same as if I was at sea level. For me the last 2000' was no difference than the first 2000' of climbing. In my opinion, the altitude had no effect, the reward of being properly acclimatized.

But as you already stated, it depends on the individual. Your fitness may not be an indicator of your ability to adapt to altitude. As unfair as it is, a non-fit climber may adapt easier. You just won't know until you attempt the climb.

It sounds like you are doing everything correctly for training. I would suggest giving yourself extra time for training hikes in the Sierras as this can only help. Also, the weather is a really big variable ... building some extra days into your schedule can help with this problem.

Good luck and be sure to post a trip report.

Hi DocDee,
I am a fellow Brit from Hertfordshire originally and now living about 2.5hrs from Whitney.
I have been up Whitney a few times and would be pleased to assist in anyway that I can.

Few things....
1) Whitney is somewhat unique and certainly very different from anything in the UK. If you are going to summit in a day it is approx 13,000ft of altitude change and also very large temperature changes. Combine that with the altitude and it is very different.
Not sure anything in the UK can really prepare you for Whitney. I used to run with a guy you may have heard of, Steven Moore. He was the World trail running champion for a few years back in the 90's. Whitney will certainly test your fitness.

2) Consider the use of Diamox for altitude sickness. You don't want to come all this way to have to turn back.

3) Hopefully you will have a few days to aclimate.

If you need any help or advice please let me know.
Dave

You've already won 3/4 of the battle, being in outstanding shape.

Show up a few days early and do some of the easier hikes in the area to get use the experience of going higher for the first time.

There are plenty of easy to moderate hikes in the area that will not wear you out but will take you to between 10,000' and 12,000'.

People do this all the time, so it is certainly an option.
I've slept at many trailheads.

However, one of the constant debates has to do with this exact issue, and it relates to an issue you've not raised: the issue of getting good sleep before going. Whitney is a busy, noisy place at nite, and if you are not used to and comfortable sleeping in your car, you are likely to have very poor sleep, particularly when the campers start yelling and banging pots at the bears, in the middle of the nite. That said, many do it exactly this way.

From the acclimatization standpoint, my opinion is that you will lose virtually nothing by staying in Lone Pine. Our scholarly paper published last year on the 1,000+ climbers who attempted Whitney during the two weeks of our study demonstrated protection from virtually any time spent above 10k in the previous month.

I think for a person who follows an acclimatization program, such as you are doing, the key factor is getting the best rest the nite before the ascent. My personal experience is that I can't hike worth a darn, if I'm sleep deprived. Unfortunately, starting at 3am does not help that in any case. Also, some folks are so excited, they cannot fall asleep, no matter where they are.

Either approach works for many, many people. You should probably follow what makes you most comfortable and secure.

I'd be very interested in the scholarly paper you mention. Is it available on the web, or can you give the cite to whatever journal it was in?

I appreciate all of the comments and advice I have received here. Your experience will be to my benefit I am sure.

I have experience of sleeping in some pretty uncomfortable cars, but in August, we will have a Dodge Durango 8-seater SUV, with two rows of folding rear seats. We'll have a futon mattress in the back. So I guess it'll be as comfortable as car sleeping can be. The idea of getting out of the car and being on the trail without the drive up from Lone Pine appeals, but I'll consider the advice before we decide.