Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Trouble at Trail Camp.

Myself and two others just returned from a successful three day, two night MT Whitney summit climb, and we were shocked by the behavior of some of our fellow climbers at Trail Camp. I have spent many nights at Trail Camp, and I don't expect to get a good nights sleep there. Some nights TC is full of people, and in the very early hours of the AM I expect to hear movement, zippers being pulled open, snoring, and soft vocal murmurs as people camped near me awake and get ready to depart for their summit attempt. But at about four AM many of us at Trail Camp were awakened by a group of six to eight day hikers coming up the trail talking VERY loudly, with the lead hiker yelling back to the group behind him that they had arrived at Trail Camp, were going to be stopping for water at the TC Pond, and they would be taking a ten minute break. The group then proceeded to banter about loudly about who had the water pump, and who needed to fill up their water bottles, and how everyone felt. After shinning their head lamps all over the tents (and in the faces of those sleeping under the stars) they finally left and headed up the trail. Then a half hour later, you could hear the people in one of the tents camped up above us, yelling at the other members of their climbing group in two tents near them that it was time to get up. They all gathered around one of their tents, loudly discussing what time to step off, the weather, who was wearing what, and if anyone needed to fill up water containers. Apparently I wasn't the only one whose sleep they disturbed, as from a tent on the far side of TC I heard someone yell "SHUT UP!!" , cutting off the loud talkers mid-sentence. For about 10 seconds. Then they proceeded to go ahead and continue with their full volume conservation about their summit attempt. Like I said, I expect to hear noises, footsteps, high altitude gastro-intestinal pressurization equalization's, and low volume conversation. I love staying at TC. It is always an experience all in its own. But I thought this was WAY out of line. In talking around the camp several hours later that morning, I found out that I was one of many people that was disturbed by these peoples inconsiderate behavior, as several of my fellow campers had quite colorful names for the loud mouths. I just wanted to see what kind of experiences other board members/readers have experienced at Trail Camp. And to just ask everyone to remember that, like my group, a lot of the people staying at Trail Camp may have summited the prior day, and are dead tired and would like to get at least a half decent night sleep to get them safely down the Mountain and don't need to be loudly awakened at Four AM by anyone talking louder than necessary. Have a little consideration for your fellow climbers, please. Thank you.

Unfortunately, this is a common problem in campgrounds all over California and elsewhere. Rude hikers and campers are busting through the Portal's backpacker campground all night long. (Even the bears are inconsiderate with their rummaging from time to time!)

What you experienced at Trail Camp is also true at Outpost. The problem there, I think, is that hikers trudging along in the dark are often oblivious that they are approaching a campground at Outpost, and their voices at dark-thirty in the morning carry a long way. And, unfortunately for me, I'm a light sleeper.

It is an endemic problem, or maybe I should say epidemic.

The only way I know to avoid the problem is to avoid the campgrounds and camp in more secluded, less accessible areas.

People are people, and, unfortunately, there are plenty of rude, inconsiderate ones walking around, as you ran into at Trail Camp. I suspect that even if "quiet" signs were posted, it would do no good with those who are inclined to speak or yell any time and any where they like. Yep, it is a free country. I shake my head in the wilderness areas where this happens, but it happens. It sure is nice when people are respectful and considerate. We just need a whole lot more of them on Whitney's trails.

That's why I haven't been up into the Whitney area in over 9 years - just too many people, and a lot of them inconsiderate of the others around them. There are so many other beautiful, uncrowded spots in the Sierra Nevada Mtns and other places in the western USA, I can't see why so many folks limit themselves to constant repetitive hikes up Mt. Whitney.

I had the same sort of scenario at Horseshoe the night before I left to summit Whitney from Horseshoe. The nice thing about that backcountry route is it's not Disneyland-like. I saw a total of 6 people between Horseshoe and Guitar Lake. To some extent, the marmots can be nicer than the humans. The deer never muttered a word either. =)

I'm with phydeux. Did the main trail (w/summit) in 06. That's good enough for me for that trail. It was a good experience as I camped away from TC closer to Consultation Lake. Going up the MR in two weeks for the first time and then will have satisfied my Whitney curiosity for some time again. Otherwise, you'll find me elsewhere in the Sierra. So much solitude, quiet, scenery (that rivals or is better than Whitney) to be found so close by too. It's unfortunate to see Whitney devolve into this somewhat sad social experiment. I understand the attraction for those who travel from around the country to attempt the highest in the lower 48 (or Half Dome, having the same issue, particularly after reading the recent post/link to 2009 YOSAR report). All that, coupled with the precipitous downward trending dumbing of America on many levels, common courteousness to others just one part of it, I'll be looking for the next new-to-me trail as far away from crowds as possible.

Just go in the late fall, winter, or springtime, much less crowded and much quieter. I avoid popular areas like that in the peak season for those reasons, among others.

Last time I climbed Whitney, had the same problems, mainly day hikers coming through in the middle of the night with no respect for the sleeping.
Afterwords, I spoke with the Rangers at the visitor center about putting up a sign at the entrance of Trail Camp (Quiet, campers sleeping) but they would have none of that. Instead, they suggested
camping a mile away from the trail. Right, like people really want to hike a mile off the trail after carrying a heavy pack for 6 miles. Anyway, I still think the sign would be a good idea.

Phil

Ear plugs and sleeping mask, don't leave home without them.

If you don't want to deal with crowds and all that entails, don't go to Whitney. There are more peaks in the Sierra Nevada than you could climb in a lifetime. The majority of them are far more interesting than Whitney.

Of course, you won't impress anybody at work when you tell them you climbed Mt. Brewer.

I recall Bob R writing about some nice camp sites a little to the north of Trail Camp. Maybe he can describe where again.

If you want a good night's sleep, you don't need to go a mile off the trail, but an extra 5 minutes walk could make all the difference.

...and if so many people were disturbed, WHY did only one speak up?

In 10+ times at Trail Camp I never had a bad camping experience but I have been camping all over Cali. for 44 years and had bad experiences elsewhere. I feel your pain.......

......But just think of all the hikers who passed through and did not disturb anyone. Quite the majority. It's just the 1/10 of 1% who are A-holes.

I try to think of the glass as half full and not half empty.

Don't let a few inconsiderate twits ruin your experience.

Mnttrailrunner Yes you are correct. The majority of those staying at or passing thru TC were speaking softly and trying to be considerate in the early AM.

Steve C I think the reason only one person spoke up is because you feel that your yelling "BE QUIET!" to the loud party only disturbs additional people, and makes the situation worse. I sure thought about saying something to the loud group, but knew that I would probably then wake up the people on the far side of me from the loud camp.

As several of you said, different locations in the High Sierra, and going in a season other than prime time would differently be quieter. But I went with two guys that had never been to MT Whitney before, and of the 14 listed dates on my lottery letter, this was the one I got drawn for.

In spite of the noise issue, it was a trip full of successes and experiences. I got two first timers to the summit, we saw a climber in a full chicken costume headed up the trail, we got snowed on at the summit, we saw an 84 year old Grandfather returning from a successful summit climb with his family, we saw a few of the straggling Perseid's meteors, we saw what Marmots look like close up, we talked to a lot of nice people on the trail, I survived a 10 hour rain storm at TC laying in a dark claustrophobic Bivy bag, and the three of us safely returned to the Portal Store for Cheese Burgers and Fries.

I also talked to a day Hiker at the TC Pond as we were leaving. He was a young man, wearing a short sleeve T-shirt, light shorts, and with a very small day pack. Wearing a pair of tennis shoes, with a pair of heavy hiking boots hanging on the back of his pack. It was cold, windy, drizzling rain, and the peaks were completely socked in by swirling dark clouds. I told him about the snow fall, and ask him if he had zip on legs for his shorts and rain pants to put on. .He said no to the legs and he had no waterproof pants, but if it got bad he had a pair of cotton sweat pants he could put on. And the heavy boots head had lugged up to TC? He said that he would put them on if he "needed to". I hope he made it down safe.

So it was a great trip, with a hick up. Thank you all for your input and thoughts.

I took up two people two years ago. When we came upon T/C I told them to shut until we get past it.
My friends had no problem shuttin there yappers.
I cant wait until Sept.26th this year I will see the Mountain then.
Next year the top!

Last July my daughter and I were sleeping at Trail camp (about 4am) when a couple of day hikers came through. They were both yelling for friends (Leonard...Armondo...) who were ahead of them on the trail. When they were just a few feet from our tent (with head lamps cutting into all the sleeping hikers tents) they realized what they were doing. One said to the other, "I bet these people are all asleep". I could not hold my tongue... my response "not anymore". They were quiet the rest of the way through TC.

On our way down the mountain the next day we happened to run into a day hiker on his way down also. In our conversation the early morning hollering at TC came up. Surprise, we were talking to one of the two men who had been responsible for our early wake up. He stated that they weren't aware that they were in the middle of a bunch of tents till they walked past ours.

We did get an apology for there behaviour before he quickly went on his way.

Sometime back I posted a map with some of the nice campsites on the Whitney trail. The x's around Trail Camp should not be taken literally; think ~five sites per x.

I don't know why people gravitate to the obvious ones within 40' of the trail, for the reasons given above. The best ones are between the Trail Camp pond and a hundred or so yards to the east. There are 20 or 30, most on slab rock, so--if you bring a tent (which I never do)--expect to use rocks to guy it down.

Some are close to the stream leaving Trail Camp pond, but if not, getting water shouldn't be a problem. Each person in my party always has two 1-liter canteens. After poking around for a good campsite, one or two (not the cook) take all the canteens to fill. That is always enough water for dinner for everyone, and enough to get partway though breakfast, at least. In the morning, if necessary, someone (not the cook) makes another water trip to finish off breakfast. Never does anyone have to make more than one water trip.

And, of course, don't forget Consultation Lake.

I agree. There are so many places to camp, yet most people end up right next to the trail. You have to expect day hikers to be passing through in the early AM.

Still, day hikers should be respectful of those still sleeping.

It is a public place so what do you expect? You want to sleep peacefully, then stay in your home .....

Common courtesy is common courtesy, whether in a public or non-public place. It's not the place, but the people. Personally, when BPing, even if no one ever wandered by the whole night, I never expect to sleep as peacefully as I would at home, due to the usually less than ideal sleeping conditions in a tent on the ground.

CaT

I figure the crowds are a big part of the experience on Whitney. Go with it!

Try bringing a pair of foam earplugs. I have been sleeping with them for the last 40 years due to sharing a room with a sister who snores like a train. They are very easy to get used to and block out most of the noise.