Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Performance Anxiety: Giving Up Whitney

If anyone has some suggestions that work, please let me know.

I got to Lone Pine Friday, won a lottery held at the Visitor Station by drawing #1, had a comfortable bed in my van, parked in the Overflow Lot which was blessedly 95% quieter than the Hiker's park lot by the store. Did not partake of any caffiene for a couple of days prior to the hike, took some over the counter sleeping aids, hit the sack at 3PM, maybe slept from 4PM to 4:40 PM...and that was it. Laid there for 7 hours, no sleep ever visited again. I was on the trail at 12:06AM, felt like crap!

It wasn't the altitude as I sleep well at White Mountain higher there than Trailside Meadow on Whitney. I was fit, not afraid of the dark or the bears. I was concerned about the weather as 2 ladies coming down at midnight said it had snowed Thursday afternoon and I didn't pack heavy gloves or pants.

I am wanting to get one more summit, then quit on a victory. Maybe I am putting too much pressure on myself? My brain was racing the whole time I tried to sleep and I couldn't shut it off. As it was I barely got to the last tree and knew I couldn't battle the weather AND mental fatigue. A one day is tough enough when the weather is good.

Tried some meditation, tried to fool myself I was home and doing nothing in a few hours. Afraid nothing short of a Michael Jackson Dr. FeelGood and some Propofol is going to let me sleep prior to climbing this mountain. I used to sleep a few hours, in 2007 I was down to one hour and got to the JM Junction. Too pooped to go on from there. Last year and this year, down to nearly NO sleep.

Anyone got suggestions?

That's a tough one, Sherry. If I understand you correctly - you're fit and have done at least one other 14'er (White Mtn?) so it's not physical, but a mental game.

I've found that listening to talk radio helps engage my mind/distracts so that my body will relax enough to fall asleep. Using headphones helps too, especially at someplace like the Portal, because it helps to block other distractions in the parking lot. I don't listen to controversial discussions/speakers when trying to fall asleep - just radio that engages my brain and I find interesting. Another variation is to download podcasts, like Prairie Home Companion, This American Life, etc. Just plain music doesn't work for me, as I can daydream just as easily with it present or not.

Am wondering if no caffeine is actually counterproductive? I'd suggest you maintain your daily routine as much as possible, including avoiding the sleeping drugs, unless that's part of your daily routine.

In a nutshell - if you can't quiet your brain, at least control it by forcing it to focus on something other than the upcoming hike.

Thanks Kevin,

Distraction makes sense, however, I'm right-brained and can't even ignore elevator music, I hear everything going on all around me. Also a high-strung person, I'd be a race horse or a Jack Russell Terrier if not human. I'm sensitive to drugs, so caffiene really gives me an energy kick when I don't have any for a few days. I took a Starbucks coffee in a plastic Coke bottle and physically I did wonderful yesterday, about the fastest times ever. Brain was just not in it for the long run.

All I can describe it is being at the starting line waiting for the gun to go off. It has become a conditioned reflex and those are tough to get rid of.

You know, perhaps some Al Gore lecture tapes might work fantastically!

Kurt W.: Do you have problems with perf. anxiety with clients doing the really high mountains or expensive trips?

bob - If you don't normally go to sleep at 4pm in the afternoon, I doubt your body will break out of its normal sleep pattern for just one day. If you had gotten up at 3-4am on the morning of the day you tried to go to sleep at 4pm, then perhaps going to bed that early might have worked a little better, but I'm guessing you probably didn't do that. I'm like you -- very aware of sounds, music, and a bit hyper, esp. in the mountains. I'll drop off to sleep more easily at the end of a day if I've physically exerted myself that day to the point that I just want to "drop off to sleep" because of it. No mental diversions ever work, although sometimes trying to read a book that requires a lot of mental focus does help some.

CaT

Several things, Sherry:

1. I very much agree with getting some strongly exertional exercise for an hour or three, several hours before going to bed.

2. I also agree with trying to alter your sleep routine for the several days before.

Both of the above will make it much easier.

3. I would recommend a prescription sleep aid of an ultra short acting type, so it will out of your system in 8 hours. Some of the older are not gone for 30 hours. This requires a prescription from a physician. Try it at home before you go up the hill.

4. OTC sleep aids are a BAD choice, and were almost certainly a large contributing factor to what you experienced on the hike. The active ingredient in all of them is diphenhydramine, and antihistamine, which has a side effect--drowsiness. It take much longer than 8 hours to get out of your system, and may sap your energy level to a huge degree, although not in all people.
The standard dose in all available meds is 25 mg, which will knock most people out. If you took more than one, I'd expect to be feeling side effects for about a day.
(some people do great with these, but so many do not, I'd not recommend this unless you really know that it works well for you in other settings. I've seen studies that suggest that such medications impare a person equivalent to being intoxicated with alcohol)

5. stay away from alcohol 48 hours before, as it is notorious for interfering with sleep adjustments.

Best of luck!

If the big issue here is you're worried about not getting to sleep, which is keeping you from sleeping, have you considered just forgoing sleep altogether?

Do something to keep yourself up until 12 a.m. (when your day permit becomes valid), then pull the hiking equivalent of an all-nighter.

Oddly enough, I've found that my own body works better on no sleep than after a few hours of semi-sleep.

Obviously, you'll want to take the necessary precautions to stay safe, including ideally hiking with others and also having a place to bunk down as soon as you're done.

Just a thought.

The biggest problem is not realizing that as one moves up the mountain oxygen gets scarcer. We instinctively try to maintain a pace instead of allowing the mountain to dictate the pace.

Go slowly, walk slower than you could and it will be easy. Try to push it and you'll have a miserable time.

Drink lots of water.

If you want it to be a walk in the park you have to walk as if it's a walk in the park.

Good luck!!!

Bobcat, I think you already understand the problem: You're so stressed that you can't sleep. Then you stress even more about not sleeping. People don't function well without sleep, but sometimes we're just too stoked to sleep. It may pay to just lie down for a while, relax as much as you can, rest your body, and don't worry about whether you actually sleep. You obviously can't get away without sleep night after night, but one night of rest without much sleep shouldn't be a big problem.

I realize that some people want to be on the summit at sunrise, but I can't think of any other reason to start so early. It shouldn't take sixteen, eighteen, or more hours if you are fit and focus on getting the job done. It's important to pace yourself and take care of yourself, but you also need to keep moving and not fool around. The faster you go, the later you can start, and the less time you will spend exposed to weather at altitude.

The best way to build fitness and stamina for Whitney is to climb a bunch of lesser peaks. That would also build your confidence so Whitney won't be so stressful.

Bob

Sherry,

I remember a Sherry who asked to come along with me on a day climb of the Mountaineer's Route a few years ago. She weighed about 110 - 120 lb and had a 25 lb pack, which I admonished her about. That Sherry had to turn around at Lower Boy Scout Lake.

If you still maintain that climbing style--there is a problem, and it's not lack of sleep.

Sherry....This is a suggestion..But maybe if you did this as a one night backpack...doing it that way fits more to your everyday schedule...Maybe even sleep in Lone Pine in a bed..get up when you want, eat breakfast like you would at home, drive up and start hiking at a more normal time...hike up to trail camp..enjoy the rest of the day..go to bed and get to Whitney the next day..I don't know but it seems like doing it on more of a normal schedule would not be such a shock to your body as far as those early hours starting and not sleeping...hope this makes sense

Thanks all! Think I'm making this last summit too important, too obsessive. Time is at a premium, I'm 64, have a serious case of osteoporosis (although I don't think I'll ever break a bone up there), so I see the clock ticking out. Heart is great this season, but you wonder what year the heart starts to peter out.

Bob R.

Um, that Sherry is me. I did NOT quit at Lower Boyscout Lake. You turned me back. Got lost on the EB ledges, had to call 911, terrified the hell out of me. I was game to go all the way.

You asked to tag along with me that day. I said OK, but I made this clear: We are in separate parties. I did advise you to turn back, because in my opinion, you would never get there at your pace. But you were free to do what you wanted.

I never accept a stranger on my trips, because of the unknown factor. If someone asks to join, I often say "Sure, we can hike together. But if differences in speed arise, we are each on our own."

If you can trim your daypack down to 7 - 8 lb, you might be able to give it a good shot.

Here's something I never quite understand. Why are you leaving at midnight? I understand and support the concept that if you have to hike in the dark, it is better to do it at the start of the hike when your fresh.

It seems to me if you have properly trained for your Whitney hike you should be able to guestimate your hiking time, even with a two hour margin of error. A fourteen hour day should allow you to leave at 5 am and return at 7 pm. In early September, that allows for limited headlight use in the morning and none on the way back. A sixteen hour hike starts at 4 am and returns at 8 pm. This gets you back to the lower-easier portion of the trail before needing the headlights.

I can't help but think that you are losing a ton of efficieny by leaving at 1 and 2 in the morning.

Pigdomer28,

Left so early because of the weather. It looks like it arrived at the summit at the same time I would have.

MadeinTahoe: Your suggestion makes sense. What schedule I kept while younger (3:00am) may not work for your entire life. I do White Mtn starting at 6AM and sleep well at ll,700' and make the summit with no problems. I think starting Whitney at 6AM may work. Even if you start at 3AM you're coming down in the dark anyway unless you're very fast. Starting back down from summit at 4:30 PM would give me probably light and twilight for at least half the trip down. I may try moving the starting schedule.

HI Bob R. Your input on this board is incredibly valuable and informed. You wrote:

If you can trim your daypack down to 7 - 8 lb, you might be able to give it a good shot.

Right now, I have my day pack at about 12 lbs, sans water, for my summit attempt from Trail Camp. That includes rain gear and clothing for temps down to 20 degrees, should it be required, 24 ounces of food, and my standard emergency kit. I'm planning on hauling 3 or 4 liters of water, so add another 6-8 lbs. My equipment was selected with weight very much in mind. How in the world do you trim your daypack down to 7-8 lbs?

Jim

I don't speak for BobR (I only play him on TV), but as another ultralightweight enthusiast, I'm pretty sure he is talking about "base" weight that most ultralighters use. This would tend to exclude water, something of another subject, as water weight changes by the hour. Also, people often carry way too much water, rather than rationally replenish along the way. (and usually don't drink enough)

Ultralight techniques do require significant experience, and careful thought and trials with things. For example, many people wear an outer jacket, and carry a rain jacket, as well. I don't. My Frogg Togg jacket (8 oz) IS my outer layer. it has a hood, and is totally wind and waterproof. I don't normally bring the bottoms, but would probably on Whitney (8oz). The Pack/clothing/food are the places where I tend to see the most overkill. 24oz seems like a lot of food. I'd probably carry more like 8-10oz for this hike, but one certainly can vary.

Most first aid kits are also over the top. I think it is more important to have knowledge than gear. Mine is about 4oz.

Hope that helps, it is an ongoing struggle, the weight.

Sherry,
I think you may have misinterpreted the advice from madeintahoe. I think the suggestion is that you make this a 2 or 3 day hike instead of 1.
I have done Whitney 3 times and have never aspired to hurt myself with a one day, round trip assault. I always take my time and go to to Trail Camp or Upper Boy Scout lake on day one with a leisurely 9:00 AM start. If I am staying at my camp a second night, then the second start is also leisurely. If I want to get down for a hamburger on day two, then a 6:00 or 7:00 AM start is in order.
Ditto on the weight. Layering for cold weather should not mean a heavy pack.

Thank you Ken--your input in this forum is also of great value! Yes, weight is an ongoing balancing act. For my experience level, I'm going with what I have determined to be "safe". Also, as I said, I'm planning for 20 degrees; if at TC those temps seem improbable, I'll lose about 10 oz, and perhaps 6 oz of food, putting me at about 11 lbs. It's my first time on the mountain, and I've done some very careful planning. Only my experience now will inform future attempts.

Jim

The 7-8 lbs was a goal for Sherry, not me. My base weight for dayclimbs is more like 4 lbs.

My ultralite pack list is for overnights, but you can subtract the sleeping bag and pad for a dayclimb. Note that the list is just the starting point; pay particular attention to the verbiage below the list, where I discuss substitutions/additions.

Also, for shorter trips, I am often not in that ultralite mode so much. I usually take a more substantial parka, like the Lowe Adrenaline (1 lb), instead of the DWR. Also, since this is for Mt. Whitney, I take a second canteen to fill up when I leave that spring on the switchbacks. It's a 1 liter Platypus, weighs about 1.5 oz as I recall.

Thank you Bob. It'll be interesting to see what mods I can make to my system as pertains to Whitney based on next week's experience.

BTW, I'll be at the switchback spring on September 16. In your experience, what are the odds that water will be available early in the AM, and early after noon?

Jim