Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Yet another boot question

I'm getting ready for the winter season and it's high time I actually kept my footsies warm.

Call me crazy but I did a February snow show trip in Yosemite, and an April Whitney MR trip this year in a pair of Asolo FSN 95 (medium hikers). My feet were cold.

I really kind of like using my hikers until I'm in the snow more than I'm not. That being said, there fit is 'meh'.

So, for 1 and 2 night trips during the winter and early spring, are double boots overkill? It seems like the ability to sleep with the liners is total bonus. Frozen boots suck. However, plenty of people seem to be happy with the non-doubles as well (do you sleep with your boots? Or do they just magically not freeze overnight?).

Anyway, it seems like a lot of people here suggest the Trango S in general, but more for a warmer weather boot?

In searching around I've been washing back and forth between a double boot and not. Eventually I'd like to make it to Rainier, and even a Denali. Using the same boot would be a bonus, but not using the same boot isn't a deal breaker. I'd rather spend some cash and keep my toes.

Anyway, to put my semi-coherent rambling to an end, I've been looking at:
La Sportiva Nepal
La Sportiva Trango Extreme
Kayland M11
Vasque Radiator
Scarpa Omega
and even the old standby
Scarpa Inverno

I've only been able to try on the Nepals, a pair of Trango Ss, and the Invernos. Holy geez are the Invernos warm, I would think too warm almost, but then again, I was in a store in the summer... All three fit pretty well. Heel lift has always been my bane, if I size the sportivas so that my toes just barely, fully stretched, kinda sorta touch, I get a bit of heel lift. If I size them a half size smaller I think that my toes MIGHT get crunched on the downhills.

Wow, this got way longer than I thought it would...

Thanks all!

Another options might be "supergaiters", first recommended to me by RJ Secor. I've found they add a huge amount of heat to regular boots, as well as keeping them dry.

http://www.mtntools.com/cat/techwear/Gaiters/supergaiter_fitting_instructions.htm

Oh yeah, I keep forgetting about those. My only worry then would be underfoot insulation maybe?

I'll have to find a place to check them out.

Ah yes, I remember going through this phase. I was highly resistant to committing to insulated boots as I wanted them to be nimble and still somewhat sensitive to rock. I tried some non-insulated mountaineering boots (e.g. La Sportiva Glacier) and found that my toes still froze when it was below freezing out, and that defeated the purpose of using heavier boots for me. Now I'm VERY happy with my Kayland M11+ boots and my La Sportiva Spantiks for much colder/higher altitude stuff. So I guess my 2c is that if you're going to use real boots for the cold, might as well get some insulation. What size are you? I have some lightly used Vasque Ice9000 and some unused M11+ (too small for me) boots for sale.

Heh, fair thinking.

I'll PM you about the boots.

This is all just bench racing for me at the moment anyway, a recently broken collarbone is threatening to keep me from climbing for at least a couple more months... I'm just hoping that when I'm all healed up, I'll be ready to go! At least I have some time to figure out what I want right?

What size are you? I have some Kayland Super Ice's for sale. I read online (http://www.bouldermountaineering.com/thebomo/pr/3305/pg/1/) that they feel warmer than the M11's.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110433826390&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching#

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110433825840#ht_500wt_990

US Men's 10 - 10.5 normally, with the occasional 9.5. I suppose my heel runs a little narrow but overall I'm a pretty standard D width.

How do the Kaylands fit in general? I have to drive a bit to get to a store other than REI to try on boots here. I'm tempted to zappos a pair of Kaylands just to see how they fit.

More importantly, however, is the question of how insulated of a boot would everyone suggest for winter trips on Whitney (and other 14ers)? Plastics? Leathers? I suppose in general, it's more of a "What's your winter climbing boot preference (though having never done any ice climbing, I suppose you could exclude that).

Basically, during the winter and early spring I don't want cold feet, and I'd love it if my feet didn't roast either (I would also like to have my cake and eat it too).

I can relate to the cold feet issue but then last year I bought the La Sportiva Batura and now have toasty little toes.

Also they have a great sole and grip well on mixed terrain.

I am heading to Pico de la Orizaba in November and am sure I will be able to stay warm.

A little pricey but worth every penny.

As someone who relied upon one of Secor's books (Aconcagua), I can state without reservation that I wouldn't believe the man if he told me I have 5 fingers on my right hand.
When I mentioned Secor's name to one of the Argentinian Rangers who didn't even speak English he just doubled up in laughter.
I'm surprised he's still around.

It's quite comfortable to walk the approach in double boots, and you can wear the inner boot for sleep. If you don't want to do taht, the insulated booties are quite comfortable and fairly light. I have on occasion put a chemical heating pad in them and smiled myself to sleep.

It is true that RJ is one of the funniest guys around!

The Super Ice fit okay, maybe a bit narrow on the feet. I wear a size 9 running shoe (although my true foot size is about 8.25) and I wear a size 9 in Kayland for my hiking boot which fits perfectly, even with thick wool socks. The Super Ice with a full length insole and thick wool socks is a bit tight. Its not uncomfortable but a bit tight. I was wearing them with 3/4 length insoles and that solved that problem. You can get Vasque Radiators for 275 on ebay (buy it now). They're light, modern double boots with plenty of warmth.

I'll throw in my 2 cents worth (and hopefully not confuse you even more): I have a pair of Nepals, and like you my heels are a tad narrow, so heel lift was/is a concern for me. The thing you got to consider about the Nepals is they are leather and require a considerable break in time for most people. I've read reviews of 30+ miles and for me that actually seems about right. Heel lift did occur at first, but after insole change, and putting in the extra tongue, I got a good fit. I feel they are warm enough for most of my winter adventures, except for extreme cold, and they are getting more and more comfortable as time go on.

After using Lowa Civetta Extreme boots and some Asolo's in the winter (Both plastic boots), I finally tried and fell in love with a pair of La Sportiva Baturas. I personally will not go back to plastic boots ever again unless I am going to do some serious ice climbing. My feet were either too hot or too cold in the plastics I was using and after using the Baturas, the Lowa and Asolo plastic boots were not overall comfortable at all.

The Baturas kept my feet were comfortably warm, never getting too hot or any hotspots and of course my feet never felt any cold as well. These boots adapt very well to temperature change. The greatest thing I liked about these boots was the lightweight, quick break-in period and the ability to walk and climb so effectively and comfortably. My first climb in these boots was the Mountaineer's Route and I had no issues at all. These boots far surpassed the Civettas and the Asolo's I used. Of course I paid $100-200 more for the Baturas but it was definitely worth it. I can't wait to use them again this winter! I will get back with what size I wear when I get home.

I have a wider front foot with an slightly above average in step and a regular wide heel base and these boots fit well. But these boots will foot most feet(narrow and wide) well. If anyone is in the Oceanside - San Diego area, feel free to contact me to try them on or look at them. I want to say I am wearing 43.5 or 44.5. I can't remember right now.

Here's a link and some info:

http://www.sportiva.com/products/prod/395

BATURA
The ultimate mountain boot for high elevation alpinism, winter mountaineering and ice climbing

This six layer synthetic boot has an integrated highly water resistant gaiter that opens with a Riri Storm® zipper for excellent water resistant warmth. The inner boot uses thermally expanded PE foam and a polyamide layer for warmth. The shock absorbing PU midsole makes these boots comfortable on long approaches and the 8-9mm TPU midsole stiffener accepts automatic crampons.

WEIGHT: 34.67 oz • 983 g LAST: Nepal CONSTRUCTION: Board Lasted GAITER: Elastic Cordura/ Schoeller® -Dynamic™ with water repellant membrane/ Vibram® rubber rand/ Elastic nylon with impermeable insulating layer/ Riri Storm® zipper UPPER: High tenacity nylon/ Insulated anti-dragging felt/ Insulated PE/ Insulating aluminum layer LINING: Polyamide Thermic layer/ Mesh INSOLE: Insulating Ibi-Thermo 9mm MIDSOLE: 8-9mm TPU/ PU Inserts/ SBR Aircushion SOLE: 8-9mm TPU/ PU Inserts/ SBR Aircushion

I use nepals as well when its a bit cooler out

my foot doc made me custom orthodics that prevented heel slippage and the covering was some new material that keeps your toes warm and dry

Kayland Apex XT. I, too, struggle with boot fit, especially heel slip. My feet are size 9, medium width, but low volume (don't fill the boot really well), and narrow heels. Tried on about eight different light mountaineering boots and finally tried ordering the Kaylands from Zappos (their free return policy sold me). The Kaylands fit well right out of the box, even without any special insoles. Only wore them in the snow last spring on San Gorgonio and San Jacinto, so I don't know what their low temperature limit is yet, but so far, they were plenty warm and very comfortable with no heel slip. Highly recommend.

Right on all, this is all really good advice.

Looks like so far I should definitely be looking for an insulated boot, with plenty of people using the Nepals, and a couple of recommendations for the Baturas. It also looks like the Kaylands may fit exactly how I need them to, now to find a shop that stocks them so I can try some on. Of course, last but not least, there was at least one "Don't fear the approach with double boots".

Any Trango Extreme users? They are definitely on the light side.

Again, thanks everyone, you're all being bery helpful in my boot quest.

OK, I'll say 'fear the approach' with double boots! Not so bad with the Spantiks but they are new and weird.
haha
Try zappos.com for trying stuff on, sometimes their stock is good, not always though.

+1

Thanks for the advice everyone, looks like I'll be Zapposing a pair of M11s (which very well might be my size, and happen to be on sale) and heading up to Berkeley to see what Marmot has. Seems like I'll get more use out of a pair of insulated single boots, I can worry about doubles when I actually get around to planning the high altitude trips.

Sweeeet.