Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board bag question

I'm currently doing the Sierra Club Wilderness Travel Class. For the 3 day snow camp in March (I think held somewhere like South Lake), they recommend a 0 degree bag. I have a 15 degree MH Phantom 15. I also have a Thermarest Prolite 4, and would add a closed cell foam for more insulation. I can also add a silk cocoon liner, and a Equinox bivy around the bag. Do you'all think this would be OK, and I can avoid buying a 0 degree bag that I do not want! Would layering inside the bag, (hat of course, socks of course, and I have a Montbell UL down inner jacket) help? Or will I freeze! Thanks, Barbara

If you use all that stuff, you will be more than fine. I have a 15 deg. Big Agnes bag that I have slept in comfortably well below 0degF with a liner and thick undies.

If all else fails just get in fully clothed. Layering works just as well inside a sleeping bag as out.

You should be find with a 15 degree bag but if you wanted to bring a 0 degree bag I know A16 rents them. They change out their rentals every year so the bags are usually like new.

This is a major important factor for severe winter conditions. You could have all the down bags you want but if you are conducting heat to the cold ground or a cold Thermarest alone, then you will be in trouble. Placing the other non-inflatable (ie will not puncture) foam pad UNDER your Thermarest is a trick for really bad places, like sleeping on snow or glaciers. Harvey

Not everybody subscribes to this conventional wisdom of putting the closed cell foam underneath your Thermarest. Some people prefer putting the Thermarest on the bottom and the closed cell foam on top.

Experiment both ways and see what works best for you.

On trips where I know I'm going to experience a lot of cold like Mt. McKinley or Mt. Vinson in Antarctica I will many times reduce bulk and cut my closed cell Ridgerest in half and use that half for my torso.

Barbara, keep your eyes on the weather reports as you get closer to snow camp. In 2006, one of the groups measured temps at -5deg F, but when I was in WLA Gr2 at North Lake in 2007, it was a bit different:



There are lots of other tricks to keep warm as well: use a nalgene as a hot water bottle (boil the water and put it in your bag with a tight lid about an hour before you get in); chemical hand/body warmers (especially tucked into the sports bra, but be careful not to get burned); hot chocolate w/ peanut butter right before you get into bed (to turn up your metabolism).

A lot depends on how coldly you sleep. Me, I need to be bundled in winter, and almost all of the above strategies, including a change of dry clothing to ward off the chill. You'll be getting a ton of information in the coming weeks, so drill your instructors and try things yourself to see what works.

-L

I did WTC last year and used a +15 synthetic bag with 2 pads (one a closed cell thermarest - on bottom). It dropped to 0 if not a bit below 0 the second morning, and I slept fine (and tend to like it warm not chilly) I did sleep with full longjohns on and may have had a light fleece as well on top, as well as a hat on. You should be fine, but it would be a good idea to bring the liner with you just in case.

Feel free to email me if you have any other questions. The class is a blast! Which location/group are you in?

enjoy!
=) tif

I use a -20F North Face bag in the winter (overkill is okay), with enough room in the bottom of the bag for boots and damp clothing. Then, the boots will not freeze and the moisture from damp socks, etc. will evaporate out through the bag as you sleep. Keep a high-energy snack in the bag with you for an early morning boost.

You'll get the full spectrum of recommendations from people who camp in the winter in the Sierra, from -40 degree bags to +30. The reason is that people have different definitions of "good sleep"; that and people have different tolerances for cold. I tend to prioritize moving fast over good sleep, so in the winter I often sleep in a 30 degree, 1.5 lb bag when I'm in a tent and the weather is warm to average, but I do need to keep a down parka and all my clothes on. If it's going to be cold (below zero) I take a 5 degree bag. If I'm car camping or there's a short approach and I just feel like being comfortable, I'll take a -15 bag.

This is all to say that the choice of bag doesn't matter much. In all but truly horrendous weather, when you'll be at home anyway, any bag warmer than 30 will get you through the night (in the Sierra). The question is how much comfort you're willing to sacrifice for weight.

As far as pads... everyone in my climbing community uses just 1 pad in the winter. I don't think you need two except in truly cold places, such as high in the Alaska Range. After I punctured my pad once on Whitney many years ago and took down the tent to see a sheen of ice where my body had shivered wakefully all night, I started to carry a repair kit. I haven't had a problem like that in 4 years, but I have it on good authority that the Thermarest pads are indeed not indestructible when you sleep directly on rocks (although I've had great luck personally).

Thanks everyone for your great and very helpful replies. I think I'll stick with my Phantom 15, and keep an eye on the forecasts too. Great pic Laura - wow! I should be so lucky. Were shorts on your packing list? I'll let you'all know how it goes - first hurdle is the "conditioning " hike of 14 miles and 4,000' elevation, coming up in just over 2 weeks. I'm currently 3 weeks post knee arthroscopy, so I'm playing that one by ear, as it were. Thanks again - Barbara