Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Snake bite

Did a little research and came up with the following from three different sources. Seems like the Mojave greens do have a unique secondary toxin.

From http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_rattlesnake_bites_in_californi.html
“The rattlesnake bite is generally “hemotoxic” which means that it exerts its toxin by disrupting the integrity of the blood vessels. …”
“An exception would be the Mojave rattlesnake whose venom is “neurotoxic.” The bite of this snake causes rapid paralysis. This includes paralysis of the respiratory muscles and suffocation.”

From http://www.blueplanetbiomes.org/mojave_rattlesnake.htm
“This rattlesnake has a very potent venom which is considered ten times more toxic than other North American rattlesnakes, a fact that makes the Mojave rattlesnake one of the most dangerous poisonous snakes in the United States. Their venom works as a neurotoxin and is called Mojave toxin. Strangely, the bite of a Mojave Rattlesnake is usually not as painful as other rattlesnake bites.”

And from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crotalus_scutulatus
“Common name Mojave rattlesnake Mojave green … Crotalus scutulatus is a venomous pitviper species found in the deserts of the southwestern United States and central Mexico. It is perhaps best known for its potent neurotoxic venom. Two subspecies are recognized, including the nominate subspecies described here.” - And under the Venom subheading - “Rattlesnake venoms are complex cocktails of enzymes and other proteins that vary greatly in composition and effects, not only between species, but also between geographic populations within the same species. C. scutulatus is widely regarded as producing one of the most toxic snake venoms in the New World, based on LD50 studies in laboratory mice.[12] Their potent venom is the result of a presynaptic neurotoxin composed of two distinct peptide subunits.[13] The basic subunit (a phospholipase A2) is mildly toxic and apparently rather common in North American rattlesnake venoms.[14] The less common acidic subunit is not toxic by itself but, in combination with the basic subunit, produces the potent neurotoxin called ‘Mojave toxin.’ ”

And perhaps there is an antivenin (from Wilipedia)- tried to check out the footnote, but you have to join and pay (at: http://emj.bmj.com/content/25/12/793.abstract):

Unlike the rattlesnake antivenin used in the United States over the previous fifty years, CroFabTM antivenin (approved by the USFDA in October 2001) uses Mojave rattlesnake Venom A (in addition to venom from three other species) in its manufacture,[20] making it particularly effective for treatment of Venom A Mojave rattlesnake bites. Antibodies in CroFabTM produced by the other three species' venoms effectively neutralize Mohave rattlesnake Venom B.

Joe,
I used to have a field Springer Spaniel. Greatest dog I ever owned.She got bit in the face by a rattler and i took her to my buddy the vet where he gave her antivenim. She recovered completely.She got bit again a few years later while I was out of town and my wife took her to another vet who advised against antivenim and she was never the same. She suffered heat strokes and seizures frequently from that point on.

Thanks, Ken. I usually carry a 2-meter radio, so I could try that at a high point on the way out. With sat phones getting cheaper, this may all become moot. Of course, then we're back in the "don't need to be prepared, I have a phone" mentality.

Are there any reports on people taking anti-venom before a hike just in case of a bite? If so, what were the results after an attack?

No clear answer seems to be the correct answer. Being two days out and trying to decide weather to hike out or sit it out would be something I would decide at the time of the bite. I suppose if it were a coast down to help that would be one thing but if it involved lots of elevation and rough terrain I might sit it out. I suspect that after 1.5 to 2.0 days of no treatment the worst will have occurred. Allergy sensitivity may be a factor too. No?

I backpack with my dog (40-pound border collie mix) all the time and have often wondered what I'd do if she was bitten in the backcountry. Carrying her out, I suppose, would be the only option. I think she has enough sense to avoid a rattler if she can, but if we're going cross-country or through brush... who knows what could happen?

Might be the right time to be carrying a SPOT and hit the 911 button.

This is one of the reasons why winter is so appealing: no sneaky snakes slithering down steep snow slopes stealthily searching for selected solitary souls to snack on! : )

Lets see: At $1,000 a vial, and 20+ vials often being needed to treat a bite (this info was previously posted in this thread), let me know how that works out for ya..........
By the way, as it is not being used the way it is licensed for use, it will not be covered by any insurance.

Less facetiously, many people have serious reations to antivenom that require hospital treatment FOR THOSE REACTIONS, separate from the venom, itself. I'd personally never allow myself to be injected with antivenom unless it was very clear that I was having a venom reaction.

In my area here in AZ there are classes available to teach dogs to not react negatively when they encounter a snake, maybe there is something available where you live.

Current news story:

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/del-ma...html?mode=story

With all this snake talk, has anyone ever seen a rattlesnake on any trail to Whitney? In the Sierras I've seen one near Hume Lake, been near one that a friend say at Wishon Lake.

In SoCal, I heard one near the top of Baldy (it was over 9,000 feet) and several in the foothills.

From that story:

Have never found near Whitney, however the Kern river valley is full of them. Have seen them on the trail south of the hot springs every time through there. Stepped over one that started rattling - amazing how far you can jump under the influence of adrenaline!

I've had many rattlesnake encounters in California--in the Sierras and other mountain ranges. I have stepped over rattlers at least three times, by accident, of course, because I was not paying attention. The snakes did not rattle, or at least I did not hear their rattle, and they did not strike. One of my encounters was in the rain. I stepped over a coiled rattler and then heard my wife's scream, "Snake!". The snake had 13 rattles, but was not able to make a sound, because the rattles were WET from the rain. Wet rattles, I discovered, do not rattle! They must be dry to do what they are supposed to.

I even caught a 3-foot Pacific Diamondback Rattesnake and kept it as a "study" for six months. That was a fascinating experience--handling (holding it in my hands!), feeding the animal and milking its venom.

While hiking up Iron Mountain in San Diego, I stepped over a stick crossing the trail, only to discover the "stick" was a rattlesnake with a rabbit in its mouth. It preferred the rabbit rather than fending me off, never rattled, and made no effort to slither away. That rabbit must have tasted good!

All this being said, I never ran into a rattler on the main Whitney trail or the times I've been up the Mountaineer's Route.

I have taken groups on hikes and discovered that most hikers are totally oblivious to snakes that may be around them, especially when rattlers keep quiet.

By the way, I have been bitten countless times by all kinds of snakes (because they were defending themselves when I caught them), but I was never bitten by a rattler. (My "study" rattler, of course, did try to bite me. Unfortunately, he bit my brother on his thumb, but lucky for my brother, it was a "dry" bite.)

Wayne, is this professional interest or just a hobby?

The non-official term is Herpetolevitation. I coined it.

Good one, wagga!!

Bulldog...just a hobby. As a youth I was terrified of snakes like everyone else. However, my younger brothers had no fear whatsoever. I figured if they could do it, so could I. So, I managed to overcome the "terror". My brothers and I caught so many snakes, our outdoor terrarium looked like it came out of an Indiana Jones movie. Definitely not for the squeamish.

Well, I still have fear (I don't like getting bit!), but I have handled so many snakes, I am a lot more careful in my older age, and I am very careful not to frighten onlookers if and when I happen to be carrying one of those critters.