Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Pitch of the Snow Slope Below Trail Crest

Greetings all:

I was wondering what the other members here would estimate the slope angle of the snow slope directly bellow Trail Crest to be??? 20-30 degrees???

I recall that recently MCRS described it as though it was ready to let go and send some snow mass down the mountain.

Is this an avalanche prone slope and what about some of the slopes on the back side of the mountain between Trail Crest and the summit???

Thanks.....

Without doing the math I would guess closer to 35 to 40 deg. here is a pic of the slope. http://community.webshots.com/photo/108997220/108998012LZqIJf

Yeah, I suppose 30-35 deg. seems about right based on my pics of the route...some feller told me that he thought it was < 30...maybe pullin' my leg.

<imgsrc=http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/402f3902_15e13/bc/8be8/__tn_/dd89.jpg>

Definitely seemsa bit avalanche prone though...any thoughts from the wise and experienced?

<img src = http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/402f3902_15e13/bc/8be8/__sr_/dd89.jpg?phBT.LABDejYOiLR>

This shot makes it look like ~ 30 degrees to me...maybe a bit too shallow to produce a major slide???

I too read that post from Bob R and was interested to see that there was no indication of a major slide on that slope based on his many years of personal experience and observations.

here I did the math, from the topo, the section of snow chute is 35deg. I dont know how accurate the map maker is in such a short piece of terrain, or if the snow loads to a different angle. The slope in question always seems a bit steeper than this. http://community.webshots.com/photo/108997220/118646333sFEmnD

Maybe this picture would help.



I also posted <a href="http://www.worldofadventures.com/marcus/pictures/mrd/whitney/20040124-28/index.htm" target="mrd">a few additional pictures (on the end of the page)</a> from that trip which might help you with assessing the upper slope.

Here's a view looking down from Trail Crest at someone coming up the chute (June 2003).
<a href="http://gary.mggm.net/photos/whitney">
</a>

I have tried to estimate this slope before, and concluded it was about 30 deg. Certainly no more than 35. It does steepen up a little toward the very top, though.

RJ Secor states that the U-Notch on North Palisade is 700' of 42 deg slope. With this precision, he or someone else has probably measured it. This slope is definitely steeper than that below Trail Crest.

True, I have never seen evidence of any avalanches on this slope.

Some friends went up the Whitney trail Feb. 6 - 8, and posted <a href=http://members19.clubphoto.com/bob772531/2037972/guest.phtml>pictures</a>. They got almost to Trail Crest. Shows this slope and the general snow conditions.

PS. The back side, above Trail Crest, is usually a relative piece of cake in winter, based on around 20 or so trips there. If the conditions have ever been severe, or avalanchy, I haven't seen it.

There are two places between TC and the JMT junction which collect enough snow to get your attention, but just keep a good grip on your ax until past them (one of them is in mrcs's picture of his camp). Also, at some of the corners, you have to climb up and over short snow drifts but it's no big deal. I've never used crampons up here, just stashed them at TC.

For several reasons this slope seems like a disaster waiting to happen. The angle is sufficient for avalanches but not too steep. There is a lot of potential for snow loading as the winds scour the west side slopes and dump it on the east. That said, I've never seen signs of a slide on it over the years. A few years back there was about an hour of giant hail in the afternoon followed by about 1-2 feet of snow overnight. The hail made a layer of ball bearings below the new snow. The hasty pit we dug the next morning was the scariest one I've ever seen, when the backside cut was made the whole new snow layer just slid off completely without any need to leverage it! Needless to say we didn't venture out onto the slope but we sure didn't see it slide either.

Ive got a question about this chute.

What equipment is needed for a summer climb of the chute to avoid the switchbacks? Im sure an ice axe is necessary or are trekking poles enough? Crampons? This is where everyone slides down on the accent, so if you get in trouble, wouldnt it be like sliding down on purpose?

Thx for input.

Kain, in summer when the snow is gone, I don't think you want to be in this chute. It is extremely loose and people have been hurt here. The trail used to be routed over to the chute and back a couple of times, and you can see signs of it in the picture below. (For a sharper picture go <a href=http://members12.clubphoto.com/robert634908/1647083>here</a> and click on picture 62. Then select View Full Image.) I'm sure it was rerouted to the current path because of rock slides.

I've traveled on this old trail a couple of times and it is not too bad, though the regular trail is better. Coming down once, I timed myself with a friend staying on the regular trail and I beat him to Trail Camp by 10 minutes. But it wasn't worth it.

Off this old trail and onto the slope in general, however, is miserable. If you try it, crampons and ice ax won't help you at all. Poles might, a little.

<img src="http://a9.cpimg.com/image/3F/65/24041279-341a-020000D5-.jpg"width=720>

According to one information source, avalanches occur most frequently on 38 degree slopes. An inclinometer is cheap and very valuable.

We should all keep in mind that even though nobody here has ever seen that slope slide, doesn't mean that it can't or won't slide. And that most avalanches involving climbers and skiers are triggered by the climbers and skiers themselves.

If there's any doubt, dig a pit.

Here's my contribution to this topic:







The first picture makes it look almost scary steep, when in reality, this second picture is a truer representation of what the slope is actually like. Hundreds of people bomb down this slope every year (a few get hurt) and they probably wouldn't do it if it was too steep to control your speed.

How do you post pictures on the message board?

WWRD,

The easiest way to learn is to "right-click" on a post that has a picture and select "View Source."

Notepad should open up.

Do a search for one of the words that is close to the picture (e.g. speed in my post). You'll see some HTML code with /, <>, BR, etc.

This is part of the code that you'll want to replace with your own info, but you need all of the code. I can't show you all of it, because then a picture would appear.

img src="http://piotrowski.us/pictures/mvc-239f.jpg"

For Yahoo! Photos the link would be something like: http://photos.yahoo.com/piotrowski/image.jpg

Richard, you just need to learn a little bit more html in order to really explain how to add images:

<img src="http://piotrowski.us/pictures/mvc-239f.jpg">

Just type < where you want the "<" and > where you want ">".

Bill Law

Yeah, I agree it looks like a nice cruiser on a powder day. Some beta on skiing or snowboarding down this chute would be cool. I don't see anything in the close up pics that would make this black diamond territory except for exposed rock due to insufficient snow.

Thanks for the lesson, Bill. Can you show us what the minimum required HTML code would be to display a photo in the post? (Like I've said in other posts RTFM, but it's just easier to ask.)

Have a look at <a href=http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?c=15868y.11p86lx3&x=0&y=-ex5o15>this</a> album for some pictures of a couple of telemark skiers from Utah who skied the MR.

Richard, great pictures! Very inspiring! Someday I am going to carry downhill skis up and ski down the MR. But first I am going to learn all I can about winter mountaineering and avalanche safety. I saw a picture of Doug Jr. skiing down in Mountian Lore. I'm not sure which route he came down. I think a snow board would be easier to carry up, plus boarding boots would be easier to walk in. But since i've been skiing for almost 30 years I am much more confident on skis. I've only been boarding for 3 years and i dont have that many days on a board. I am even considering carrying skis up in the fall before there is much snow. Then hike up in the spring, get the stashed skis and breeze down. I am interested in any helpful info. on downhill skiing any part of Whitney.
-Rick