Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board re: ? about whether to rope in on main whitney trail ...

Feedback in my previous ? was extremely helpful. I have another ? - gear related - I guess. If we are sticking to the main whitney trail to the summit in June 12 - 15... is it recommended to wear harness and be roped in with the group I am going with? I understand that there are drawbacks to both sides of this ?. If I am roped into someone else and a fall occurs... a life could be saved - on the other hand - if a fall occurs - instead of one injury or ' victim ' there could be more than one... I haven't really run across a post or thread that made it clear one way or the other so any feed back is helpful.

Thanks again.

Roping up on Whitney's snow/ice slopes is most effective when all climbers are skilled in ice axe arrest, but totally ineffective and dangerous when all are unskilled ice axe users, as you surmise. What has been discussed on this board is the situation where a skilled climber helps a less skilled or no-skill climber. The skilled climber keeps a close eye on his/her roped-in climber, and if a fall occurs, instantly and spontaneously uses the ice axe to arrest the fall. The operating word here is ice axe. This is a useful and life-saving tool, but a useless and potentially deadly weapon if not used properly. If you are really interested in learning more about ice axes, I suggest getting a copy of the bible on mountaineering: "Mountaineering, The Freedom of the Hills," which goes into great detail on roping up and ice axe usage. Be safe and do yourself and Whitney right!

I would further stress the point that being "properly" roped together is also key to traveling roped.The distance between yourself and your partner are important as is keeping slack out of the rope."Short roping" (20-25 ft of rope between the two parties) fellmoutmof favor in some circles as a result of John Krackauer(pobably mis-spelled his last name)short roping a female client on Everest, eventually ending her life as he dragged her up Everest. However, this is the preferred method. Keeping slack out of the rope avoids forces being generated during a fall.Longer distances between partners is usually used during glacier travel to avoid bothnparties being pulled into a cravase. Before I would recommend anyone carrying an ice axe, I would recommend taking a snow travel skills class. These are offered from a couple of reliable guide services in the Sierras'. I cannpersonally recommend Doug Nidever as an excellant source.

First of all, when short roping, there is only approximately four to eight feet of rope between the lead and second. Second, it hasn't fallen out of favor - it is used by guides, or experienced climbers to assist and secure less experienced seconds. The lead has to understand that they are responsible for the second and that the second could slip at any time. A big responsibility.

Back to your question. Generally it is not advisable to rope up unless you plan to place gear along the route. Also, I am guessing from your post that you don't have a great deal of experience (just guessing, no insult intended) so short roping may put you and any second and a higher level of risk. Probably best not to rope up and turn around if you get in over your head.

One thing you could do is bring a shorter rope and some slings to be used as a hand line in any uncomfortable sections... The big downer with this is that it takes a lot of time!

This doesn't change the impact of any of the discussion here, but Jon Krakauer reported observing Sandy Pittman short-roped to a Sherpa from Scott Fisher's group. None of the three died in the mess that was developing around them.

Thanks so much for your all of your input thus far. No, I don't have a lot of experience using ropes, but I have used crampons, ice axe etc. And I am reading Freedom of the Hills right now.
I am NOT insulted by any of your comments or my own lack of experience with climbing... that is why I am doing this... to get experience

I will be taking a skills course for future endeavours. I am in great shape, and so are those that are going... and we all have spent an extensive amount of time outdoors - but not climbing. So, I guess my real question boils down to - can the main trail be climbed... I guess as it is right now or a month... given the current weather conditions... can it be climbed without the assistance of ropes?

In all the years we have done peaks in the snow around Whitney area in May or June, we have never roped up. Although there are areas (like the last 400 feet up the Mountaineers route) where it might not be a bad idea, especially in the more winter months.

What you have asked is legitimate? A few years ago a group all roped up fell into the cravass on Mt. Hood. Unroped they would not have all been dragged down together.

We carry a rope sometimes, in case a less expereinced member of the group needs some temporary emotional security.

The discussion on roping up on steep ice/snow is very interesting. I plan to go up to Mt. Hood in a couple of weeks to develop my winter skills so as to avoid the problems I had climbing up Whitney in March.

See the thread Trip Report: 3/12/05 located at:

http://www.whitneyportalstore.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002851

I'll be in a two day class with the first day devoted to training (use of the ice axe and crampons) and the second day being the actual ascent. When going up, I assume we'll be roped up in a group starting at the "Hogsback".

I have a couple of basic questions:
1) Is the harness similar to the one used for rock climbing?
2) Is the guide at the top when going up and at the bottom when going down?
3) If someone falls, what is the chance that the guide will be able to arrest the entire group (especially above the crevasse known as the bergschrund)?
4) If someone slips, does everyone arrest and belay the fallen person (if at the top)?

By the way, a good link to what happened when a group fell at Mt. Hood can be found at:

http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/Report_Hood_Bergschrund.htm.

Hopefully, between this training and a winter course in the Sierras next year, I'll be more prepared to comfortably climb Whitney in snowy and icy conditions.

Whitwalker, good to hear you'll be taking the climbing course on Mt. Hood. All your questions will be answered in detail by your guide service. The harness is a regular rock-climbing harness, but there are other ways to rope in, which they will explain. The guides I've been with on Rainier take the lead. It depends on how many are in your group. If you have multiple rope teams, then obviously the guide can only be in one of them. On Hood, you will be trained, and group-trained, that if anyone falls, they yell "falling," and everyone in the group must fall down immediately for an ice axe arrest. A trained guide needs everyone on a rope team to arrest themselves. Obviously, the more on a rope who do not arrest in a fall, makes it less likely the guide can stop the fall. The guide service will have you practice, practice the technique. It needs to be instinctive and immediate. I stepped through a snow bridge over a crevasse on Rainier and had no time to yell, so things can happen. (At least you don't have to worry about crevasses on Whitney!) Your Hood training will be a great help to you, and we look forward to hearing about your Whitney winter adventures later on, even if it is next season.