Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Request: GPS waypoints and track for the Mountaineer's Route

Does anyone have some good GPS waypoints and an accurate track for the MR in .gpx format?...preferably from a GPS with the new SiRF III chipset that is more accurate than previously.

I know some are saying that a GPS is "useless" on the MR, but I think that is gross exaggeration. My GPS track are usually accurate to within 5 or 10 feet, so at least that would help me know if I was more than 10 feet off the route at critical junctures, and that's better than wandering 50 or 100 feet in the wrong direction.

I still plan to do a ton of research on the MR, and will not depend on the GPS to get me up there. But I'm trying to prepare the best I can and the GPS will help.

Hopefully, someone out there is a MR "expert" and has hiked the route a few times and has a track file of the "best" route as well as perhaps some waypoints of critical points in the route when one could get confused.

If so, please send to tclp555@gmail.com and I will be very grateful, and send some trail karma your way...Thanks...

Hi TC,

I wouldn't say that GPS for MR is useless, esp in the winter, but you probably will find you don't need to rely so heavily on it. The MR requires some route finding for the ledges, a bit going from Upper Boy Scout Lake to Iceberg Lake, and through the chute to the summit.

Since you have been asking so much questions about beta, I would suggest that you go buy Chris McNamara's High Sierra Climbing published by SuperTopo. The beta for the MR is very well written and will help allievate fears doing this hike/climb. I used this for my first time up the MR this summer and found it very helpful.

It sounds like you are a little green to class 3/4 hiking and high altitude. I definitely would suggest you get some experience with class 3/4 before doing MR. The MR at worst is class 4, depending on the weather, condition, but I found it to be class 1/2 most of the way up until pass the chute which was class 3.

You also mentioned taking rock climbing classes. I don't think that'll prepare you for hiking MR and is probably unnessecary. I climb 5.11-5.12, but find that it's different hiking class 3/4 than climbing hard stuff. For me, I'm more aware of the terrain on class 3/4 hikes because blocky ledges or small 10-20 ft fall offs are more dangerous and prevalent.

Hope that helps. Be safe, have fun and savor the moment on the summit.

I asked the same question a few months ago and was sent this link...
http://www.colororange.com/index.cgi?page=californiaGPS.html#Whitney

I am not sure how accurate the waypoints are because when I loaded them into Topo!, they were a bit off from the route shown in a .tpo file I found online. Email me if you have Topo! software and you would like this .tpo file.

-Manley

Well, that may be better than nothing, but I was looking for an actual track rather than a route made by a few waypoints. But I loaded that into Google Earth and it was interesting to look at..thanks.

I can e-mail you a complete track of the mountaineers route from iceberg lake down. I tracked my mount russell hike and came down this way. I have a Garmin Vista. e-mail me: trav_and_jenn@hotmail.com

Hi I am not sure what part of GPS functions you don't understand, no signal no answer 3 SV's POOR COVERAGE, poor answer, now inverse those poor values and plot a degraded vector, think of a dark room.... no lights, find the door with bad information. We see this every summer, take a map making course and become aware of the many factors that can distort the values of GPS positions and map positions . Thank You Doug

I don't really understand your post except maybe you are trying to say that the GPS is not 100% accurate, especially when all satellites are not in view. I'm very aware of this and also aware that it is useful to have a GPS and a good track to use as a reference. I'm not going to rely on a little electronic device to get me up the mountain, but it will help to a degree.

tchiker, you have repeatedly stated that you think the superior accuracy of GPS will allow you to know where to go, within 10 feet of "the right way", and people with significant experience with such things, and with this trail in particular, are telling you that it is not true, and that the limited information that you will get from GPS will not help you with the detailed decisions that you will need to make on this route.
Hundreds of experienced hikers read these forums, and basically no one is supporting your point of view.

What is not to understand?

Ken, I didn't call GPS accuracy "superior" and I don't know what you are saying I suggested it is superior to.

And there have been some people on here who have agreed with me that GPS can be helpful, and understand what I am asking for and what my use for a GPS track would be. You must have read some different threads than I have if you think "no one is supporting" my "point of view".

I don't know why I'm bothering, but lets try it again.

"I know some are saying that a GPS is "useless" on the MR, but I think that is gross exaggeration. My GPS track are usually accurate to within 5 or 10 feet, so at least that would help me know if I was more than 10 feet off the route at critical junctures, and that's better than wandering 50 or 100 feet in the wrong direction."

You are concerned about route-finding on the MR. You are convinced that a GPS will help you.

I am telling you that the problem in route-finding is not of the type that you think it is.
Finding the route is simple. In places, it is probably 1,000 yards wide, and if you are anywhere in that 1,000 yards, you are on-route.
Something that gives you "accuracy within 10 feet" will tell you nothing, as an upward direction anywhere in that 1,000 yards is equally valid. So if you get concerned about being 100 feet north or south of your arbitrary GPS route, you will be concerned about nothing, as both are correct.

The problem in route-finding, is in figuring out the best path through, say, an upward slanting boulder field, which will maximize your progress, while minimizing your energy output and time spent. And a GPS will not help you with this, at all.

Even if it works perfectly, which it will not, and even if it's accuracy is 1 inch.

There are route-finding issues, in the other sense in which you mean it, but they are, for the most part, below the E. Ledges, and in that canyon area, GPS's tend to have problem. Also, since the major problem there has to do with brush, what was a route through the brush last year, may not at all match the route through the brush, this year. Brush grows.

You may notice that you are having trouble finding the waypoints for this route, in spite of thousands of people having climbed it, and probably many of them having GPS. That is because it is not particularly useful.

So, take your GPS. Load in a hundred waypoints. You'll get there if you follow it. You'll get there if you don't take it, too.

A MUCH better strategy, is to gain proficiency in using a map and compass, look at many pictures of the route, so that you can recognize terrain features that will help you navigate. This is not complex. But if you don't have that proficiency, you will find yourself confused, and the GPS won't help. You can be LOOKING at Whitney, and not figure out how to get to it.
Happens every year. Probably happening today.

G'luck!

Well my strategy is to gain proficiency in using a map and compass, look at many pictures of the route, so that I will recognize terrain features that will help me navigate...AND...to have my GPS to tell me if I am far off course at those critical junctures (like below the ledges and a couple of other places.) It might also help me know where someone else has crossed over near the top from the left to the right to climb up the last few rocks...I know some people have described this route near the end.

And at least if I have a track showing the route that someone else took, I know that route is pretty good, even if I decide to walk up different specific rocks, etc. At least it will be of some help. I never said I was going to close my eyes and buy a GPS with voice prompts and just do what it tells me to.

A couple of people have e-mailed me with their GPS data and it's been helpful, but no one has sent the complete MR track yet. Well, at the very least I will make a track of the route when I do it and make it available to others who want it.

But I'm mainly taking my GPS because it's my favorite piece of gear and I have fun with it. I don't plan to use it to navigate so much as to check my pace, elevation, time, etc. And when I get home, I can import the track into Google Earth and see a virtual representation of my amazing feat of hiking the MR.

Ken, actually, the MR is not a 1000-foot wide path. In fact, if you are 10 feet off in many places, you can lose an hour backtracking to find the right path.

When I took a group up there last summer, one of my group got ahead of me, and even though I told him he should come back, he proceeded on, ending up bushwhacking for several hundred yards, while the others sat on the path and watched and waited. While we were there, a lone woman came along who had made the same mistake, and she was literally all scratched up and bloody.

I really do think a good gps track of the route between Lower Boy Scout Lake and Upper BSL would be a significant help.

Rangers and regular hikers using the same path keeps the brush open in that area, and allows the other areas to grow over. When we went up, there were rock ducks (cairns) at most of the critical points, and you could look across and see the next one. I believe the rangers have been keeping the correct route marked so multiple paths will not be developed.

You are right about the route from Upper BSL to Iceberg Lake being hundreds of feet wide, ...except for the last ascent up the Iceberg plateau -- there, we got off route and tried to go up the slippery water route, while the correct route was maybe 200' farther west.

When I went up, I snapped pictures at each of the critical points. I have added captions to many of them describing what to look for at that point. Sometime, I'll find the time to mark them up for added illustration. They are on the web here:

<a href=http://stevec.smugmug.com/gallery/692661/2/30115935 target=_new>Whitney Mountaineers Route 7/17/05</a>

Steve, I did not say that the route was 1000 feet wide, I said that "in places", it was 1000 yards wide. A good example of that is climbing out of LBS lake. From the east side of the lake, to the west side of the lake, that entire hillside, is all potential route. In fact, I've seen people on virtually that entire hillside, which, as you know, is a boulder field, heading up. There is no trail.

I love technology. However, it is not a substitute for knowledge and skill. Every year, I see people get themselves lost, using GPS. They forget to turn off the button that cancels "common sense".

The problem usually comes, when there is a conflict between traditional route-finding, and GPS. There is simply a human inability to distrust technology, unless one is VERY confident in one's traditional navigation skills.

I also got off path coming down from upper boy scout lake to lower, and I got scared. The bush was about 15' high, and there was water flowing everywhere, trying to walk on bushes, it was really terrible. I pulled out my GPS (which I should have done earlier), looked at the route I tracked on the way up (this was on the way down) and headed directly towards that route. I got back on track and made sure to check my GPS as soon as the trail faded again to avoid similar issues further down.

I also used Chris McNamara's route description and map in his High Sierra Climbing book as a reference when I did the MR - it's a good guide.