Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Hiking Etiquette

I searched but couldn't find any posts on this----I've been hiking in the Sierra and local mountains for many years, but always hear and experience conflicting responses on this topic:
Who should yield when uphill and downhill hikers meet on a narrow trail? I was always taught that the uphill hiker has the right of way. Thoughts out there?

Uphill has ROW. At least that's what I was taught!

I was also taught uphill has the ROW, but my experience has been many 'uphillers' tend to want to take a break and pass the ROW to those coming down...

Likewise, always told that uphill has ROW, but why?

Seems like up-climbers need to keep rhythm, but if it were a question of safety, it would seem down-climbers should have ROW.

If a down-climber dislodges rocks, the up-climber would at least be facing the rockfall. If the up-climber dislodges rocks (right after passing), the down-climber would be hit in the back.

Downhillers yield to uphillers. Some uphillers prefer to let the downhillers pass so that they can catch their breath.

Slow hikers yield to fast hikers.

Large groups yield to small groups.

I always yield no matter which direction. It allows the oncoming hiker(s) choices including also stopping for a nice hello.

Eyes...going down I tend to see people far sooner than those coming up because of the natural focus of the eyes. Going up, I too like to rest but often don't see the downhillers as soon, especially if they are jogging or powering downhill.

Here's what I was taught: stock has ROW over hikers; hikers have ROW over bikes; uphill in each class has ROW over downhill same class. I give way to runners in either direction. And here's what I was taught was the origin: picture a fully loaded ox cart going uphill to Leadville, CO, meeting a fully loaded ox cart coming downhill. If the uphill cart stops it may never get started again. In fact, it could start to slip downhill and get out of control. Don't know for a fact if that's how it started, but that's what I was told.

interesting Burt, when I was a kid, taught that more dangerous to back up going down hill than up, but can understand the uphillers wanting to take a break...............steve

Here's a physiological explanation; a hiker hiking uphill is performing more metabolic work than a hiker hiking downhill. The uphill hiker is performing primarily concentric muscle action, or shortening of the muscles, such as when stepping up on a rock and straightening the leg; the quadriceps in the leg are shortening. Going downhill is a primarily eccentric action; you are actually braking your downhill momentum, which is an eccentric or lengthening action of the same muscles. This eccentric action utilizes loosely between 1/3 to 1/4 the energy of the concentric action. The person going uphill is therefore working harder than the person going downhill (a controlled fall for many!) Of course people who have hiked know this. The other part of this is, when you slow down or stop, your heart rate drops as well. When you start back up, you are more anaerobic right at the beginning, like you were when you first started hiking uphill. It is harder to get the heart rate and thus pace back up to where it was compared to maintaining a steady state, or even pace, when walking uphill. That's why stopping and starting (or performing intervals during training) is harder for most than just maintaining a slow, steady pace, particularly since lactic acid may be produced when starting up again, particularly at higher altitudes because of the low oxygen content in the air (this is part of the burning that we feel in our muscles, such as when doing sprints or weight training). Incidentally, the downhill is where most of your post-exercise or hiking soreness comes from, which is why it's tougher to hike the Grand Canyon, overnight at the bottom, and hike back up the next day.

Hope I didn't bore too many people!

Excellent (factual) reply, ExPro! I could not have said it better myself (nursing license in '92). That should end this thread.

I am not trying to be argumentative and agree with virtually everything Expro claims with one exception. The May 2007 issue of Backpacker states that "recent studies have shown that you spend three times as much energy walking downhill as walking up. It just doesn't feel as tiring" according to Jonathan Chang, a sports medicine orthopedic surgeon from Monterrey Park, CA.

I have always understood that downhill traffic should give preference to uphill traffic as well but for the aerobic reason more than anything else.

Well, you just made me tear open my May issue for the first time! Interestingly, they use the same examples as I used in my explanation. Unfortunately, either Dr. Chang or Backpacker or both are misrepresenting the data, and I can say that with conviction without ever looking at the reference. Everything they say about eccentric muscle damage is true. However, just because the eccentric or negative part of the movement causes more damage, what is referred to as DOMS or Delayed Onset Muscular Soreness, does NOT mean that you are using more energy. Energy usage is metabolic in nature; the damage from eccentric contractions is actual physical pulling apart of the contractile units of the muscle fiber that do not require ATP, which is the energy currency of the body. I believe wholeheartedly in training to reduce the soreness from downhills; exercises such as squats and lunges, as well as, of course, downhill walking itself, will condition the muscle to better resist the damage. However, Dr. Chang has linked this delayed muscle soreness to actual energy usage DURING the event. Your body will use energy in subsequent days to repair any damage to the muscle; how much depends on a lot of variables. However, it is physiological fact that concentric contractions utilize more energy than eccentric contractions. I have actually been involved in research with eccentric contraction models. Unfortunately, "Backpacker Magazine" chose to ask an orthopedic surgeon who is out of his area of expertise, rather than an exercise physiologist. Don't be fooled by the "Sports Medicine" label; it just means he treats sports injuries.

P.S. A simple way to see the difference in energy usage is to compare your heartrate going uphill vs. going downhill at the same speed.

If hiking downhill required more energy, then all the treadmills in gyms between San Diego and Portland, ME and beyond would be tilted the wrong way for people who want to loose weight. Kurt

ExPro is absolutely right. There are many publications on energy usage uphill, level, and down. You use a lot more energy going up. It's both intuitively obvious and correct.

According to Dr. Chang, I can walk three times further uphill than downhill. I wonder if his study was subject to peer review.

I judge the right of way according to the type of trail rather than following a set rule. For example, If the trail is steep and I'm going up, I let the down hill hiker pass, especially when the trail is uneven and rocky. If the trail is narrow and has a steep drop-off and I'm on the mountain side of the trail, I move to the edge of the trail and let the other person(s) pass. One should always give priority to safety over ROW.

When I'm hiking on the less traveled trails of the Sierras, or else where, I'm always glad to meet a hiker coming from the opposite direction so I can ask about the condition of the trail, water availability, campsites, etc.

I read the same article in the May 2007 Backpacker magazine about exercises to become a stronger hiker. I thought that most of the exercises promoted in the article were not particularly helpful.

Does anyone have any thoughts about hiking etiquette when a faster hiker wants to pass a slower hiker going in the same direction? When a trail runner or fast hiker is coming up behind me, I don't have to be asked to move aside, I just do it. When I'm gaining on someone else, I would like that person to do the same without being asked. Is the slower hiker wrong to continue to plod along when he/she knows full well that I'm right behind (i.e., no iPod), requiring me to ask him/her to let me go ahead? Or am I wrong to be annoyed (without showing it) when this happens (which is very seldom, even on the MMWT at peak season)?

Tim, several poor assumptions. First, that a lack of ipod signifies that they know you are there. Many people are hard of hearing. I am. Many people develop a near meditative state when hiking, and become somewhat unaware of their surroundings. Some people may be aware of you, but may not think that they are in a place where they can safely pull off (although you may think that they could, it does not count).

Sometimes because you are moving fast in relation to the hiker, you may be upon them, and startle them, when they become aware of you.

I think it is a good practice to shout out "runner coming" when you are 10-20 yards away, to give that person a chance to become aware, evaluate the situation, make a decision, and then move.

On another note, as both a physician, and a Backpacker contributor, I am embarrassed by Dr. Chang's assertion. It is absurd on the face of it. However, as both a writer and editor, I will tell you that what a writer submits, may not be what is published.

A couple of years ago, there was a thread on this topic: Worst-ever hiking etiquette!

But apparently, there are some hikers who plod along for a long time, and never stop to let another hiker go by. ...just like there are drivers on the freeways like that too.

As I said to start my reply, I was not trying to be argumentative but merely pointing out a different point of view from someone stating some credential on the subject. I pointed out this reference in an attempt to drive some discussion to determine the nature of their statement. I am not aware of any specific studies but I will make the effort to contact both Backpacker Magazine and Dr. Chang to ask them to clarify their assertion. Expro certainly presents his point of view very well as done Ken. I certainly do not have the credential or knowledge to express my personal opinion.

As far as treadmills are concerned, it is a design shortfall if it does not have a negative slope, some do but most don't. I personally prefer real stairs to climb versus a machine because you have to turn arond and come back down.

A very good discussion.

One last opinion on trail etiquette, over the past twenty years, I have noticed a decline in the number of people being thankful when someone is couteous enough to step aside and allow them to pass. A simple thank you burns less energy than going uphill or downhill. I believe that overall trail manners has declined as it became fashionable to hike the backcountry. The best example of the worst of this behavior is the Mist Trail in Yosemite anytime between May and October.

Despite seeing numerous trailhead signs correctly supporting the above statement, I don't recall a person on a mountain bike EVER pulling off to the side of the trail to let me pass on foot. In fact, I generally experience the opposite situation in which the biker expects the hiker to move or get run over.