Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Pitbull encounters…. What to do?

Pitbull encounters…. What to do?

My hike up Split Mt last weekend was almost cut short by a close encounter with a snarling Pitbull and Rottweiler at a camp by Red Lake. The Pitbull was the more aggressive of the 2 dogs. Luckily I didn’t become a chew toy for either dog.

It was early in the morning ~8am and the campers were still in their tent but the dogs were outside and not on any leash. The trail went right next to the camp site, and as I passed by the campsite quietly the dogs spotted me (they spotted me before I saw them), started barking, growling and the Pitbull charged several time before the camper got out of his tent and called his dogs off. If the camper had not called off his dogs when he did, I estimate that a few more seconds I would have become a tasty treat for the Pitbull.

I know this is a very rare occurrence, but one thing that bugs me is that I wasn’t prepared for that type of encounter with a seriously powerful dog. Most “bad” dogs I’ve encountered on the trail are “kickable” or can be shouted down. But this Pitbull was definitely not kickable.

Has anyone else had this type of encounter?
What did you do?
What would you suggest?

Thanks in advance,
RickG

ps, I don’t use trekking pole

hiking poles or better yet a stiff strong staff is good for:
crossing streams
balance
retrieving hang/balanced food bags ( before bear cans)
resting on them
etc
fending off animals? I always put my walking staff in my tent. Glad I did once at Island Pass when smokey put his nose in the tent door, don't know if it will deter mad mama bear or mad dogs.

That is why you should be able to carry guns on the trail, 1st you shoot the dogs and then their irresponsible owners.

It is has happened to me too many times. I carry a knife and also a little electronic device from Skymall (the shopping magazine from airplanes) that you press a button and it sounds off a transmission that only dogs can hear and they run away. And to all the animal huggers out there, it's humane. I've used this several times and it has always worked flawlessly. When the idiot owner comes around the corner smiling and saying "he won't hurt you", I always tell them that they are lucky the device worked, otherwise their beloved pet would be dead right now and that they might've been next.

I never walk or hike without the device, even for a stroll around the neighborhood.

it is too bad about the dog encounter. the owner probably never expected someone to come strolling through at early morning hours. the owner did a very poor job of being responsible for his pet. we have backpacked with a pitbull before - generally they don't like cold and would rather stay in the tent with the warm bodies.

this is probably an isolated incident and not much to do but vent. unless you got the liscense # of the vehicle down at the trail head - then you could have had an avenue to vent.

congrats on Split as a day hike - I have done as overnight but still want to try a day run sometime.

I've been charged by dogs a couple times coming off of Mt. Baldy. Fortunately each time it was during the snow season and my ice axe was handy. I charged the dog with my ice axe in hand and each time they've backed off. It seems that was more effective in stopping the charge than their nearby owner saying "hey, come here" (yes that's literally what they said) to their dog. Every incident was close to the parking area and their owners were not dressed for a long hike. They looked like they were just getting out of their car for a short look around the area.

If there's a large enough boulder around you can try quickly scrambling up it. If that's not an option and if you don't have an ice axe you might try getting a couple good size rocks ready to launch from your hand if it's obvious the dog is actually going to attack. Bear spray or a smaller can of pepper spray would also work.

Like you say these events are very rare though. Most dog owners are aware of it if their pets are aggressive and leash them accordingly. The vast majority of dogs I've encountered in the backcountry are very nice and well behaved.

http://www.skymall.com/shopping/detail.htm?pid=102499974&c=


I have a wife and daughter to protect on the trails. Here's a link for the best $60 you can spend.

i had a buddy of mine jump in and rescue a kid being mauled by a pit bull here in the san fernando valley. the dog had the kid on the thigh and was digging in hard and the poor kid was screaming like a banshee, so my pal said he grabbed a 14 inch flathead screwdriver out of his truck (he's a plumber), ran over and drove it deep into the dog's side, almost all the way through -- and nothing happened. dog didn't flinch. he had a pipe wrench on his belt and he then beat the heck out of the dog until it let go and ran off. probably saved the kid's life or kept the damage from being permanent.

so when i see a loose pit bull, or even think one is snarling and heading my way, i think i'll just assume the position and pray -- after i ruin my underwear. we already have mountain lions and bears with cubs. who needs a pit bull in the mix. sheesh. you can hear them ticking....

I will preface my response by saying that I have a very strong opinion about pitbulls.

More people have died from pitbull attacks than mountain lions or bears in the lower 48.

If one of those Bxstards comes at me, my first instinct is he is dead.

I apologize to all the pitbull owners but that's the way I feel.

Rambo knife + raging pit bull = dinner

You should carry a good knife also. After you daze the dog, take the knife and finish the job. Or the next time, somebody's poor little kid will be walking by. Unfortunately people who own this type of dog often have their ego tied up in their dog, and will likely get another aggressive dog and be just as irresponsible with it. They also tend to blame everyone but the responsible party...themselves; so their dogs attack you, you attack back, and of course the owner blames you.

It's ironic that out in the wild where you'd think we'd need to be concerned about mountain lions or aggressive bears, someone's ego dogs turn out to be the real danger. And of course, they'll tell you "Oh, he's not aggressive, he's just the sweetest thing and the kids climb all over him. There must be something wrong with you, they sensed you didn't like them". Yeah, that's what they all say.

I think the owners of such dogs should be prosecuted as if they did the attack themselves and the penalty should be every bit as severe...because in fact, they do know the dog is dangerous (in fact that's what they like about it) and they knowingly and willingly keep it. Endangering other peoples' lives by keeping a potentially vicious animal is not something to take lightly.

Was Michael Vick at that campsite?

Those dogs should not have been off their leash. Dogs are territorial. They reacted as expected with a stranger approaching.

I think what you should have done is try and move as far away from their tent as possible. If I see dogs at a campsite I make a wide arc around the area. Maybe throw a rock or two or better yet find a big stick.

When I was a young man I made the mistake of trying to stop a Newfoundland from attacking another dog. The dog let out a growl and spun around seemingly in mid air and grabbed my throat before I or the dog knew what he was doing. I got stitches in my ear and teeth marks in my throat, the marks roughly outlining my jugular.

I was young and fearless and fit and very familiar with animals and there was nothing I could have done, it just happened too fast.

If the dog is large enough and aggressive I don't think you can hope to stop an attack without a club or other weapon.
Thankfully most dogs only display and they do not bite. Big dogs that bite humans end up dead.

Those dogs should not have been off leash. Who knows what terror those beasts wrought on the other hapless locals who inhabit the area; incredibly irresponsible of the owner.

Thanks all for the suggestions.

Hurrikain, do you know if that Dog Dazer thingy would really work on a mad Pit? May need to pump up the AMPs a bit for the Pit version.

KurtW, Yeah, I wish I had my ice axe in hand, but it was strapped to the back of my pack. Your “hey, come here” line just reminded me of another doggy encounter over Memorial Weekend. We were hiking in from Mosquito Flats TH and an un-leashed retriever-type dog charged us, and the dog’s owner actually said “don’t worry he won’t bite, just pet him” as the dog is still barking at us, LOL. Yeah right, I was ready to “pet” him with the sole of my boot. This dog (un-like a Pit) could have been easily handled by applying the "Vibram" technique

Asbufra, I didn’t ask the campers name. Who’s Michael Vicks? Am I missing something?

I didn’t have any option of staying clear of this encounter. The trail went right next to their camp site and I didn’t see the dogs until they were right there growling at me. It all happened within a few seconds.

If I had known that there were un-leashed dogs at the camp site, I would have gone cross-country to avoid it.

Michael Vick is an American Football Star who is in trouble for illegally breeding Pit Bulls for fighting, on His farm in Georgia.
Apparently there is a subculture of people in America who like to watch dogs fight to the death and gamble on the outcome. Those types probably don't backpack too much.

I figured from your description that avoiding those dogs was impossible. Glad you are ok...and the dogs too.

It is a little like when bears need to be killed because humans have conditioned them to eat garbage. It is the humans fault but the bear gets killed. Here is the same case, a dog needs to be under control at all times when out in the woods. If they attack someone it is the dog owner's fault not the dogs.

Just to let you know, I'm not a pitbull owner, I don't take dogs on the trail and I can't stand PETA; I'm also not trying to defend irresponsible dog owners.

With that said, by charging a dog, threatening it with a pocket knife, or swinging trekking poles, you are only asking for trouble. If a dog is barking at you, 99% of the time they are just barking, even if they are running at you, there's a big difference between barking and biting. By acting aggressively toward the dog it will be likely to change from warning mode (barking) to defense mode (biting the hell out of you). Good luck getting the dog off of you with your swiss army while it's locked around your neck. Just hope you flip out the blade and not your nail file.

Think about it, if I was camping and heard something coming through the brush (maybe a bear, maybe a hiker, maybe a unicorn) I would probably yell something like who the hell's there, get away! If it was a hiker and their response was to come screaming around the corner swinging hiking poles at me or charge me with a knife, I'd be pretty quick to go on the attack as well. I assume most of you would do the same. You can't blame a dog for barking, and you can't blame them for biting someone that's trying to stab them.

If you do come across a dog on the trail your best bet is to stay calm and wait for the owner to come grab their dog, or keep some distance between the two of you and walk around it. Escalating the situation is going to turn out badly for both parties. Even if you win the fight by killing or injuring the dog, that won't make your trip back to the car with a crushed tibia any easier.

Charging at a dog, yelling, or making direct eye contact can all be interpreted as aggression. Also, they can sense your anxiety which can also lead to a problem. Just stay calm, but don't act scared, or run away just stand your ground calmly and wait for the situation to diffuse itself.

On the other hand, if you don't have a choice and the dog is going to attack no matter what you do, you better hope you strike first and strike hard. Then I would absolutely recommend doing the same to the owner. The wilderness is a big place and you'd be long gone before anyone found the body right?

My dog was viciously attacked at Dog Beach in San Diego last week by two pit bulls. It was an unprovoked attack on my sweet 10-year old Border-Collie mix. We were beating and kicking the dog,my husband unloaded a full can of pepper spray into the eyes of the one that was locked onto her thigh...the beast did not even blink. We were near the water so he kicked them in and held the dogs head under water with his foot until it let go. My dog Katie ran for her life to the truck parked 1/4 mile away. I didn't stick around to get the owners info, so we are stuck with the $900 vet bill. She will be okay, I'm not sure I will be. It was a traumatic experience. What if it had decided to attack my husband, or a child. Those dogs have a reputation for a reason. In my opinion, they should never be allowed off leash in public, even if you think you are on the Red Mountain trail with no one else around. I no longer have faith in pepper spray. We just bought a 20 inch 500,000 volt stun gun. That should do it if there is a next time.

I don't think anyone was advocating attacking a dog that barks at you, running at him with a knife or hiking stick; obviously a confrontation that's avoided is the best way to escape injury. But if a dog attacks, people generally aren't expecting it, and you do what you can with what you have.

Of course charging at a dog that barks at you would be stupid, but unfortunately it's generally the dog charging at the victim, while the owner sits there blaming the victim for causing it.

I can't say 100% that it will work against a pit bull because I've (fortunately) never been in that situation. But I can say I've used it at least 6 times with large, aggressive dogs and it's worked everytime. I've never used it on the little barking dogs you could easily kick if they attacked.

I don't agree with an earlier post about waiting to be attacked before doing something. That will get you hurt or killed. You have to be ready and not assume that the owner is coming up the trail in a minute or two.

I am a responsible dog owner and my dog goes with me anywhere I am allowed to take her. Most of the time she is on a leash - the times she is not, she is either in the tent or under my full supervison. I'll admit it, I am afraid of Pit Bulls and whenever I encounter one I am always wondering what the dog will do. The breed has proven that it cannot be trusted.
Owners who let their dogs run around freely and unsupervised deserve what's coming to them - regardless of the breed. Even an ankle biter can be a pest and can frighten children. You cannot expect an innocent hiker minding their own business not to try to defend themselves against a raging, charging dog.
Owners like the ones RickG encountered are the ones that will continue to reduce the opportunities responsible dog owners have to enjoy the wilderness with their pets and companions. As folks continue to abuse the privileges they have, the more the government will intervene and more trails will be off limits to dogs.
Obey the Vizsla!
Adam

It should be noted that all dogs are capable of turning on a person - even the owner and even if the dog is well trained. The consequences are much more severe, however, if the dog is as strong as a pitbull versus say an 8 pound Bichon Frise. For the safety of all involved (owner, bystander, dog, other dogs, etc.) keep your dog on a leash. Curb your ego and your dog - it's the humane thing to do for your dog. Yes it's nice to let your dog off leash, but be aware of the potential consequences if your dog goes ballistic.

All breeds are succeptable to having irresponsible and inconsiderate owners, it's just that when a strong dog has one, the consequences if something goes wrong are severe,and these are the instances that the public hear about. The result is the perception that certain breeds (strong ones) are more succeptable to going ballistic, when in fact all breeds can go ballistic.

Dog owners are ultimately responsible for their dog. Afterall, a dogs whole raison d'etre is to please it's owner. As always, there are of course exceptions to the above generalizations,