Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Questions ? Full moon hike August 28th.

Hello experienced Whitney hikers. This message board rocks ! I have a some questions for our upcoming M.W. hike.

We are leaving Aug. 25th camping at Onion Valley for two nights at 9200 ft. and will do some day hiking up to higher elevations. Monday morning we leave for Lone Pine to pick up our permits to get ready for the hike that night. We might try to get a first come first serve camp ground at portal. If not just hang around waiting for night to approach Questions?

1. We are thinking about leaving super ealry at 11 p.m. ( 1 hour before our permit ) the night before with this full moon. If we do this what time would you think we would reach the summit hiking at a adverge speed ? What time do you think we would be back ? Do many people do this ?

2. What is the temp. on the trail during this time ?

3. What type of clothing would you recommend that is light weight and warm ? We have LED head lamps and the 10 essentials in our packs including GPS.

4. Water. I plan on bringing 70 oz. ( water ) in my camel bak and two 20 oz ( gatorade ) bottles in my waist pack. Will this be enough ? Will there still be water up on the trail in late Aug.?

5. Gear: camel bak, 12 powerbar gel packs, 6 powerbars, 12 oz beef jerky,12 oz. trail mix, treking poles, GPS, head lamp, small mag light flash light,gloves, topo map, 10 essentilas, wick socks, wool socks, Merrell hiking shoes, permits, hat, water purifier, sunglasses.

Thanks in advance.

I've summited five times. The weight of your water will wear you out quickly so get a water filter. There is water along the trail, the last being half way up the switchbacks. Filter as you go. I generally take two nalgene bottles full when I start, as it is cool, and you won't be sweating much. Hydrate as much as you can in the days before you start Whitney. When you do hit the switch backs, fill all your bottles as there will be no more water until you summit and get back to the switchbacks. Depending on how cold it may or may not be, the water on the switchbacks could be frozen in the middle of the night. Clothing: a polypro tee shirt, a fleece, and I take a very light weight (11 oz.) rain jacket that can also serve as a wind block it necessary. How quickly you summit depends on how fast or slow you go. Take reak food with you to eat. Those power gels give you a boost for a short period of time but just that. I take a small container of p/j and spread it on small pieces of bagels. I also take a bunch of the small snickers bars to munch as I go. That power bar stuff is hard to take at altitude, and takes water to flush down. Also, take some GatorAide powder along to mix in your water. Electrolyte replacement is important. The important thing to remember is this is a serious hike at altitude. Take your time, set a pace both you and your buddy can handle. When you summit, you are only half way through the hike, with another 11 miles back to the car! Like I said, others have a great deal more experience than me but these are the things that have worked well for me. Good luck, and enjoy the hike. And don't forget to pace your hike. The view from Trail Crest and the summit is awesome.

Bobd

The answers mixed opinions for your questions...

1. Prior to 12:01 start and hiking speed...
You need a backpacking permit to do what you propose to do. In reality you are not going to be stopped and turned around because no one is out there at that time of night. What is an average speed? I could not tell you because average to you could mean slow to me. Average is 8 to 10 hours to the summit and the average for round trip is 14 to 18 hours.

2. Trail temperature...No one can venture a guess, all they can do is relate their experiences. The temperature could be between 9* F and 85* F based on my summer experiences in this part of the world, with high winds, rain, hail, snow, slush balls, lightning and thunder or not of the the above. I'm figuring you mean by "this time" to be your total hours on the trail.

3. Gear and Clothes...My philosophy is have enough clothes with you to survive a night on the summit...not be warm and fuzzy, survive. This mean whatever the expected temperature on the summit is determines the insulation layer(s)I will take up the trail with me. I'll always bring more clothes and gear with me than I will need the day of the hike so I can make the right choice on hike day. BTW, ditch the GPS.

4. Water...You do not need more the 2 L water on the trail at any time other than the 10 mile Trail Camp RT. All it does is weight you down. There is water up there 365 days a year. Just look at your maps.

5. Gear...Too many gels, take some complex carbs to extend your coverage. The gels are for a quick pop, personally I like hard candy better. Add a second pair of gloves...if you been wearing them all night and it is really cold on the summit you will like having a dry pair on your hands. I'd add a second hat, fleece or wool. Just make sure you pack will comfortably handle the weight you will be carrying on the Trail Camp RT.

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/recreation/wild/zonelarge.shtml

Seems like there isn't a permit problem starting at 11PM at the Portal Trailhead since you probably won't get to the Whitney Zone (where permits are required) until after midnight.

As silly as it sounds you are out of compliance if you start your day hike prior to 12:01 AM. The location of the Whitney Zone is meaningless. The determinate is the trailhead.

Yes, I have talked to staff at the Mt. Whitney Ranger Station about this.

Climbingcasey,
We just finished climbing Whitney in one day on the 2nd of August, and had such an awesome time. The moon wasn't quite full anymore, but gave us plenty of light to hike at 2:30am without our headlamps other than to cross the little creeks and such. What a beautiful time of day out there! Leaving at 1:30 or 2:00 I would imagine would give you plenty of time. With a few breaks here and there, and a 30 minute visit at the summit, we arrived back at the portal by 4pm. It took 7 hours to get up and 6 down - amazing how that works. We chose to take 100 oz. bladders and two 32oz. nalgene bottles on the sides of our packs. My pack weighed 20 something lbs, but I loved not having to stop and filter water.

Here are a few things that I am super happy that I had:
light windbreaker, windstopper jacket, gloves (warm ones), hiking pole (s), 2 cytomax packets-one for each nalgene...just a little boost and yummy taste, poncho for rain (nice to have a waterproof jacket, but the poncho kept my pack from getting drenched as well, and small amounts of many different types of foods - only ate 2 accell gels the entire day (good when your stomach feels icky). Almonds, jerky, dried fruit, and a couple of cliff bars (too many power-type bars can be tough on the stomach). I took candy because many people recommended it, but it never sounded good. Oh yeah, and a warm, fuzzy type hat of some type just in case. The sun hat was a must too...it was awefully warm going up, and raining on the way down. You just never know!

What else - trying to think here. I drank 150 oz. of water during the day; it may have been a bit heavy in the beginning, but lightened nicely as the day went on. If your pack fits well, 22-24 lbs. shouldn't feel like much. I am really tiny and it felt just fine.

Of course a tiny tube of sunblock, chapstick, and a long or short sleeved shirt that is quick drying - pants as well. I don't know what else to tell you other than to start out with a nice, mellow pace, take your time, and enjoy the absolutely amazing scenery! It's such a spectacular area!

One more thing, I wished I had taken a scarf or something handy to blow my nose with - it was running constantly! Just something to consider.

Have a great time!
ps. it's easy to forget your sunglasses when you leave in the dark -

I attempted to do a moonlight hike last September. We had to turn around about a mile from the top due to my hiking partner having knee problems. I noticed that hiking at night required a lot less water than when I have hiked during the day so I would cut way back on the amount of water you take. If you follow Bob R's advice on water you do not need to carry much water except past switchback #23. Have you ever done a night hike before? I had never done an all night before Whitney - I wish I had tried one before so I could get used to how my body would react. I also noticed there was one spot on the trail (probably within 2 miles past Lone Pine Lake, sorry I can't be more specific) that was difficult to find in the dark - fortunately we had a gps system that helped us (yes we did have headlights).

I suspect that between the trailhead and trail camp you will not see many people - you will feel like you have the mountain to yourself.

I wish you the best of luck on your moonlight hike. I would try it again in a heartbeat!

Well, if those are the rules, then those are the rules. Anyhow, when he goes to pick up his dayhike permit, ClimbingCasey will probably be able to get a walk-in overnight permit instead to avoid any possible problems. For example, for 26 out of 31 days in July, there was at least 3 walk-in overnight permits available each of those days that no one grabbed. http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/recreation/wild/whitneyavail.shtml
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edit: On second thought, maybe using a walk-in (unreserved) overnight permit for getting an early start wouldn't be acceptable to rangers either. Here's an excerpt from the policy regarding reserved permits, "Overnight permits cannot be used for day hikes." http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/recreation/wild/whitneylottery.shtml However, the case mentioned in this thread wouldn't involve a reserved permit but rather an unreserved walk-in permit, but I wouldn't be surprised if the same restriction was applied to unreserved permits too. Don't know. I guess the only way to find out one's options is to call up the visitor center in Lone Pine.

It seems reasonable to allow someone to start out at 11PM when the quota for the trail on that day probably wasn't filled.

Oh, I just thought of something. Don't people go on all-night "dayhikes" under the full moon that start just after sunset in the evening on one day and end in the morning of the next day? Isn't that allowed by the rangers?

>your gear list, don't forget sunscreen for the return trip.
Moonlit hikes are spectacular on the Mount Whitney Trails. You don't even need a flashlight much of the way.
It may be moonless and dark the last few hours before sunrise after the moon dips below the western ridge. Good idea to carry two lights.

BobK,

Don't get me wrong. It is a silly rule and one I would not comply with if my goal was to day hike and stand on the summit at sunrise.

I would not be hurting anyone and the faux ranger on the trail will be fast asleep when I would be heading up this trail. I am prepared to be turned around if I am stopped.

Rules like this are in a word contemptible. If I were to ask someone at the Inyo they stock response would be by allowing this it would ruin someone's wilderness experience. No one is being hurt by a day hiker leaving at 10 PM to be on the summit at 6 AM.

You guys sure get tangled up in the rules! Be realistic -- if someone starts their hike at 11 pm, what are the chances of meeting a ranger on the trail before midnight? And IF you met such a ranger, what are the chances he was out there checking permits to make sure you didn't start before midnight? A few hikers starting extra early does not amount to a massive mob of outlaws.

WBT, please explain why you continue using that annoying "faux" adjective. I personally think you should drop it.

Speaking of the rules for hiking Whitney, I remember doing my first hike there in the mid-seventies on a Labor Day weekend. It was like a freeway with so many people. I think the rules limiting the time on the mountain should be observed in order to prevent the mountain from being over run. One or two people sneak in early, then after a while you have a lot of people doing it which will lead to tighter sanctions. As it is, the area around Trail Camp is poluted from overuse. Just my thoughts

Faux is an apt descriptor. The fact is they are not rangers, they are forest service employees who travel the trails and check permits.

In terms of 'legal starting time' - since you don't need a permit between the Portal and Lone Pine Lake, I think it would be difficult to enforce any rules if you were below that Lake.

And, I'll second the request to drop the "faux" prefix. The young people hired as rangers are just trying to do a summer job. They don't make policy. Do I like the deregatory comments they sometimes make about the MWT being Disneyland? No, but I don't like disrespecting the entire group here either.

They are not rangers, rangers are sworn officers. I have had this explained to me on numerous occasions by rangers and forest service employees.

This is why the girl roaming the MMWT had to radio back to Lone Pine to get a ranger to arrest someone who gave her a hard time.

It is not disrespect, it is an accurate description.

Disneyland a derogatory comment? No, that is, also, and accurate description and does not disrespect an entire group of people that come to Mt. Whitney.

"Faux" is a pretentious substitute for the perfectly adequate English word "fake." Of course it is disrespectful. We have a First Amendment, and anyone can show disrespect if he so chooses. But at least admit it!

If you want rangers instead of substitutes (as opposed to fakes), then I suggest you campaign for tax increases to fund them. Otherwise, my vote is to let people do their jobs in peace.

Campaign for a tax increase? Why? I never said I did not respect their work, you said I did not. I did not even say it was wise to have sworn rangers on the trail, I don't think it is. I really do not have a problem with additional user fees here to help fund what is needed in Whitney Portal or the MMWT, I've stated that numerous times here.

Where have advocating not letting these people do the job in peace? In a recent thread I said someone should basically shut up and let their permit be checked on the lower trail outside the Whitney Zone.

I've never quarreled with these people here and have rarely seen them anywhere else in the Sierra, once in ten years in areas other than the MMWT.

WB -- You post a lot of good stuff here and I have no desire to get into an argument with you over something trivial. I pretty much agree with you. I saw some annoyance "out there" about "faux" and thought I'd add my $0.02. It seems to me that calling someone a "faux ranger" is dissing them. You can diss whomever you want to. When I suggested leaving them in peace, I just meant to suggest letting them do their jobs without dissing them, since neither you nor anyone else seems to think that they deserve disrespect. If you meant no disrespect, whatever you did mean went right over my head. Which is no big deal.

The bottom line: If someone wants to see my permit, I'll show it to them. It does make more sense to check them inside the Zone, though!

Good grief! Even the above is disrespectful, "boy". The woman is a paid official of the forest service. Radioing for reinforcement seems like the best thing to do when she is out there alone -- I sure would in that situation.

Belittling a group of people is bigotry. It is time to be a little more open-minded. The reason the one person got kicked off this board was for his comments belittling everyone.

Whether they are sworn rangers, or summer interns, or whatever, I am sure their title is not faux ranger. If you don't want to use the generally accepted term of ranger, then find out what their official title is, and use that.

wb, you seem to have some confusion about job terms.

There is no such thing as a "sworn Ranger". There IS such a thing as a "sworn law enforcement officer". And there are "Law Enforecement Rangers" ( a term and job that many traditional Rangers object to, privately). Usually sworn=law enforcement officer.

Such sworn FS employees are easy to spot: They wear a gun, they are required to as part of their job. Most Rangers these days do get law enforcement training, but few are full-time LEO's (as they are respectfully known).

I'm not sure what definition you are using, but in most juristictions, folks who arrest people are not the folks that we would traditionally consider Rangers. I'd be astonished to see LEO's on most trails, ever, except when investigating a possible crime.

It would, for example, be an astonishing waste of money and resources to train most of the people out on the trails doing traditional Ranger duties, to be sworn LEO's......the job would be over before the training. Rarely, if ever, would the need for a gun arise, or an arrest to be made. "You can outrun the Ranger, but you can't outrun Motorola", as the saying goes.

It's amazing how things change. 20-30 years ago, a Ranger would have had no interest in LEO activities. Some were required to take the training and have a gun in their possession....like the backcountry Rangers in SEKI. They hated it, and mostly still do. They think it has nothing to do with what they are about.

And now it has come to define what a Ranger is, at least in some minds. What irony. How truly sad.

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