Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board helping a friend make it up Whitney

I am doing a one day hike via the MMWT. I did a successful one day four weeks ago so I feel I can make it. However, there is one person in my group who REALLY wants to make it to the top but I am not so sure he has was it takes to make it all the way. Is there anything I can do to help him make it to the top? My only idea is to carry all of his gear and stay far enough back so he keeps a pace he is comfortable with. Any other ideas? Thanks

Honestly, you can do all of that, but it's not a guarantee that he'll make it to the top regardless. Not to mention, if you're carrying way more, you'll be more susceptible to fatigue, and if he is still struggling, it could make for an ugly event.

The best advice I can give is to stay positive at all times with him. If he's hurting, or whipped, it will help. My feeling is that hiking is 80% mental, so that's where he will need the help the most. Lots of rest breaks are always a big help, but try not to take so many that it begins to jeopardize your hike time.

Finally, you should probably talk to him about contingency plans and the different approaches and thought processes to turning around, and knowing when to call it a day. It sounds like he's hell bent on getting up there, and that can be a dangerous mindset to get into. Since you've already been up once this year, maybe if things get too rough, you can stay back with him and make sure he can get down as well, while the rest of the group continues up.

Bluegrass Jubilee

Thanks for the advice. While my friend really wants to get to the top, if he is finished he will have no problem turning around, which is good. By carrying his stuff I will be sacrificing any chances of making it to the top, which is fine with me.

I concur with Bluegrass, especially about contingency plans. You want to make these plans now when you're both "clear thinking", not when your brains have lost some reasoning ability due to high altitude.

I'll give you an example from my experience. 15 years ago I took my 13 year old son on the Whitney trail -- it was the first attempt for both of us. We both got bad headaches going up the switchbacks but continued on. As we reached the base of Whitney (I'm not kidding -- about 1/4 mile or less from the summit), my son sat down and told me he didn't feel like going any further. I wasn't feeling that well either; and I sat down and thought (for a moment) that this was the stupidest thing I had ever done -- climb a mountain knowing that it might make us both sick. And I actually considered turning back with my son. I obviously had a concern for my son's health but he wasn't throwing up, and had no other symptoms besides a headache (which we both get often even at sea level). Then my "real brain" kicked in and I thought -- what's really ridiculous is to train for this for months and then hike 10.8 miles and not go the last .2 miles to the top. I grabbed my son's backpack and more or less told him he was going to the top -- and we did. After it was over, we both marvelled at how our brains weren't really able to make rational decisions at 14,000 feet and how we would have both kicked ourselves if we did, in fact, turn back when we were so close. And this climb is still one of the most memorable things I've ever done (I've done it twice since). On the humorous side, my wife had bought both of us the "I climbed Mt. Whitney in a day" T-shirts BEFORE we got back so we were especially glad we made it to the top so we could wear the T-shirt. I light-heartedly chewed my wife out for being so presumptuous; but she said she knew we would make it.

So talk to him NOW about what he would think, for example, if he got 80% or 90% of the way to the top and turned around -- would that bother him?

while i agree with both advice, (carrying pack and mental mindset) make sure your partner drinks plenty of water. you might advise him to at least carry a camelback. although those weigh some when they are filled with water, your buddy will have the source close to him with easy access.

Also advise him to wear what is necessary. what i advise people to do is bring all the clothes you think you might need, and change at the trailhead when your actually there to scope out the weather.

By drinking plenty of water and wearing the necessities, it should help him feel cool and i guess ready for the hike. when resting, make sure hes at least wearing a hat so it keeps the sun out of his face. That will reduce the chances of heat strokes and fatigue.

There is a lot that we don't know that might be helpful in offering advise. I have been part of 3 Whitney trips and made the summit on 2. The time I did not make it, I was more concerned about getting everyone in my party to the summit.

The last time I made it, we started at 1AM. Most of our party were from the Eastern time zone, so the early start was not as bad as it would have been for someone from the Pacific time zone. The early start allowed us to make most of the climb during a time when the temperatures were cooler and to get to the summit before thunderstorms arrived. It also gave us more time to get back to the Portal in case something went wrong, which it did. My wife felt very weak at the summit and was not able to descend as fast as she had done on a previous trip. We returned to the Portal at 11PM, 22 hours after we started.

I agree that much of the challenge is mental and emotional, but you must have a minimal physical ability also. This is part of what we don't know in trying to advise.

On each of my trips, my fellow hikers all commented on the mental challenges. My own challenges had to do with the scope of what we were trying to do. For my age and level of fitness, it was easy to be overwhelmed by the enormity of what we were attempting. Each time I looked up to the summit, I would think, "Am I going to make it all the way up there?" It just looked like a long way to go.

To overcome this thought process, I began to force myself to just think about the next immediate challenge, small picture thinking, instead of big picture. "I will continue to walk without stopping to that next switchback. I will go to Trail Crest and see how I feel there."

On the first trip, I got to Trail Crest and ate a Clif Bar and drank some water and felt good enough to drop down to the John Muir Trail junction.

By the time I got there, I had learned several things. I realized that, despite the effects of thin air, going down was much easier. This led me to believe that I had saved enough to go down, if I made it to the summit. I also learned that the eating and drinking had revived me when I had not realized that I needed to be revived. Somehow, the thin air seems to make you unaware of your hunger and thirst. It is smart to take a bite of something and drink some water every so often, even if you don't feel hungry or thirsty.

The most important thought is to realize that getting to the summit is optional, but returning to the trailhead is mandatory. It is imperative to constantly evaluate your situation. Remind your friend that they may not be the best judge of their situation.

Denbo

It's just transportation from one party to another.

In what sense?


So does this mean you will eventually stop at some point on the way up and let him finish alone? Given the reluctance you are already expressing about your friend's ability to summit (even with you), is this a good idea?

Just a couple of thoughts.

CaT

Why do you have doubts? Is this person disabled, horribly out of shape?

Please give us more details on your friend's physical capabilities. I've seen plenty of overweight and out of shape people make it in one day to Whitney, though it looks as if many suffer fairly acutely. Hiking Whitney (or any hike) should be challenging, fun and exciting. If it's just pure agony the whole way, it defeats the purpose of hiking. It's supposed to be a blast most (if not all), of the time.

I am often critical of myself for carrying that extra 12 - 18 lbs of "good life" around my mid-section and will occassionally use it as an excuse for ending a day trip earlier than I had planned. But I have to share with you an experience I had two days ago.

Bergen Peak is a 9700 ft peak close into Denver and has some trails which are very similar to some of the Sierra trails with a lot of uneven, rocky footings and varying degrees of slope. The trailhead I use is at 7700 ft and about 4.6 miles from the summit. On Tuesday as I approached the junction to the summit trail at one mile to go I came upon two ladies debating on whether to proceed up. One of them was obese, large mass of fat hanging over her mid-section and at serious health risk becuase of her weight and her friend was an average sized lady that appeared to be in better physical condition(her legs appeared much more muscular).

Well bottom line is the overweight lady was encouraging the other to go to the summit and I provided them with some beta on what to expect from that point to the summit. I continued up not knowing if they were following but I got to the summit, spent 20 minutes refreshing myself and started back down. Two minutes off the summit, here came the two of them, the overweight lady leading the other and in obviously better spirits and displaying far more energy. I congratulated them and continued on my merry way, uplifted by this lady's drive and determination.

Now this ain't Whitney but to see this woman was inspiring.

So physical appearance isn't always a good predictor of one's ability. (and I'm working on that layer of "good life").

The top is only the halfway point. As someone who was in "good shape" the first time I day hiked this peak. I was totally spent when I returned to Whitney Portal.

I had a friend who short roped someone to the top and got no further than Trail Camp on the return. Where they had to depend on the kindness of others to get his AMS addled, hypothermia suffering person through the night. Turning a 16 hour day hike into a 36 hour "day hike".

The short version is...this might not be the wisest of ideas.

On my first day hike up Whitney one person in our group pushed to the top and ended up having lag cramps on the way down. As a result, I ended up escorting her down past midnight while the rest of the group split. On my second day hike, a person in our group developed heart problems and had to be airlifted out of Trail Camp the following day.

I have run into a number of people who are bent on completing Whitney. I tell them about those instances and how so many people do the hike without adequate preparation.

Denbo

My friend has climbed Telescope peak earlier this summer. Last summer he made it over old Army Pass. He has done Kearsarge Pass, so I think getting him to Trail Camp will not be a problem. I am worried that the switchbacks will be his downfall.

Another factor is he is feeling pressure - a group of 4 people (similar age, wider level of conditioning) started training a couple of years ago to climb Whitney in a day - he is the only one that hasn't. I just want him to succeed! However it will not be at the expense of safety!

I am somewhat purplexed by your posts: This guy REALLY wants to make it to the top, but not enough to REALLY do the work to assure getting up AND down?

What can you do? Kick his ass out of the house, and make sure he walks 5-10 miles EVERY day during the week, and 15-20 miles EACH day during the weekend, a month before the hike. This is nowhere near as much effort as the climb. He should also be experiencing as much altitude as you can get him, and as much altitude GAIN as you can get him in a day. TELL HIM HIM HE CAN'T GO IF HE DOESNT DO THIS! Walk it with him! Have him carry more weight than he'll carry on Whitney!

If you carrying his "stuff" makes that much difference, then he is carrying WAY too much stuff, and he is WAY too far out of shape to do this reasonably.

Have the motivation work in his favor, not against him!

Have him spend 2-3 nites at the Cottonwood Pass trailhead. If this is too inconvenient, if the training is too inconvenient, then he doesn't REALLY want to climb Whitney.

Perfectly said, Ken. That sums it up to a "T." If he really was keen on doing Whitney, he would be training, simple as that.

Also, the fact he did Kearsarge means almost nothing. Kearsarge is a very simple hike with 2,000 elevation gain over 5 gentle miles. Kearsarge is nothing compared to Whitney in elevation gain, difficulty, mental challenge or altitude. Let him go from Onion Valley to Charlotte Lake and back, a total of 16 miles. That still is child's play compared to Whitney but would offer a more realistic comparison.

IMO, this is not something you need to take responsibility for. Some helpful workout tips, encouraging words as to training maybe. Carrying their pack just so they bag the peak? No way. That puts you and the other person in jeopardy.

Like others have said just making it to the top puts a major strain on the body. Coming down is a completely different and for some harder accomplishment.

I have been in that situation before. I called of a whitney trip this year because some of the group was injured and dropped out, and getting the few that remained to the top was going to be more work than I was capable of.

I think this is all good advice, but I would cation you against getting "summit fever" when you are 90% of the way to the top. No matter where you are on the trail, if you or your friend are having problems you have to remember that just because you stop going up, it doesn't mean that you are done. It is still a long walk back to the car. I'm sure that everyone could use a little encouragement to push a little harder when they're tired, but be careful not to encourage anyone to keep climbing if they really are sick. In a post above someone mentioned pushing their son to the top when he was ready to go down. I think this is a different situation because you probably know your son's limit better than anyone (possibly better than your son himself). But I would always rather turn around 10 feet from the top than not make it the last 10 feet to the bottom. Remember the saying that has been written in here probably thousands of times, "the mountain will always be there next time."

And if your friend really does want to make it to the top, he won't have a problem coming back for a second attempt.

I think that getting the idea into everyone's head that the trip is not a failure just because you don't summit will help relieve some stress for you and your friend.

KSwitzer

As you can see from some of the other posts, the truth can be a little tough to take sometimes, but it is still the truth. If your friend simply does not want to do the prerequisite work, there is little you can do to offset that fact with mental tricks. I have been the organizer for all 3 of my trips and I either urged my friends to prepare physically for the hike or I was satisfied that they did not need the urging.

On the bright side, you indicate your friend has alreacy done some hikes that may be challenging (I'm not familiar with them)and therefore , might not need much work to prepare for Whitney.

I think the concept of doing progress checks and realistic evaluations is a good plan. In the end, your friend is responsible for himself. If you are going to assume all of the responsibility, you have to have ultimate veto power. I doubt you'll have that.

Denbo

It's just transportation from one party to another.

My advice for him is: drink lots of water and walk at a relaxed pace. If the gear is that heavy leave half of it behind.

My advice to you is to stop stressing over it and your only concession should be that you "go as a group" , stay together and reach the top, or not, "as a group".

Refill the water from the many spots on the trail, so you are not lugging pounds of water around.

His previous hikes are excellent indicators that He will be ok. Why would you assume that some one who can hike a 14 mile RT couldn't do a 22 mile RT? Did he collapse at the end of Telescope Peak?