Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Consequences of throwing anything off the summit

This story is garnering increased attention among the rock climbing and mountaineering community and I want to share it here. There was a thread a while back here about hitting a golf ball off the summit that I didn't participate in. I have been climbing the East Face of Whitney when a golf ball nearly hit me and needless to say I was not happy about it.

This is just a friendly reminder that there are people climbing on that face below the summit and I think we all would not like to see what happened recently in Wyoming repeated on our beloved Mt. Whitney (or anywhere else for that matter).

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5674389,00.html

http://www.alpinist.com/doc/ALP20/newswire-absolon-dead-rockfall

Well I started that thread about hitting a golf ball off the summit. First of all it was asked mostly in jest. Secondly I asked on the slight chance that it could be done safely and wanted the opinion of experienced climbers like you Kurt whether it was safe,legal and remotely advisable. I never really seriously considered it and the thread turned into a typical message board joke filled silly thread.
You are correct that it is dangerous to throw anything off a mountain that could hit someone on the way up. You never know who is lurking in the shadows and crevices.

Hi Rodney,

Thanks for the response. I should have participated in that thread but by the time I saw it it had turned into the light the hearted fun thread and I figured it was too late to throw in anything serious.

I've actually climbed with people who want to hit a golf ball off the summit of peaks. I won't condone it in the Sierra but I watched as someone whacked a couple balls from the summit of Mt. Elbrus in Russia (in a known safe direction, of course). I've seen people want to do all kinds of things on the summit of peaks... play volleyball, twirl a baton, do cartwheels, play football, etc. I've even jumped in on a couple of those games in the past. It's all in good fun as long as whatever people do up there doesn't get someone hurt. Like the old saying goes... it's all fun and games until someone loses and eye.

I just thought this tragic incident would be a good reminder for folks that there are indeed people climbing down there below the summit and we should all be mindful of that while hanging out up there.

You got me thinking Kurt about the crazy things people do. Has anyone ever jumped off the Whitney summit with a hang glider or based jumped? Now that would be crazy. Of course I say that about you guys that climb Mt Everest also.

Also remember there may be little critters below that may get hit

Doc, this thread is an important message to anyone and everyone about throwing or rolling rocks from summits. I admit I have been tempted.

It is terribly tragic that the hiker threw a big rock and made a direct hit on the rock climber.

If you want to start a new thread about base jumping or hang gliding, go ahead. But I don't think we should hijack this one.

...just my $.02

I was involved in a SAR effort many years ago in YNP. A climber on Washington's Column got hit by a softball size rock, thrown innocently from above...took his head off.

OK Steve C. Hijacking might be a bit strong in light of my continuing the methods of celebration talk that Kurt mentioned.

The accomplishment would be GETTING the hang-glider to the summit, AND the harness, AND the helmet, AND the instruments

It would be quite a stretch, from a potential danger standpoint, to equate a cleanly driven golf ball to a twenty-five pound boulder trundled off a summit, which is what I understand happened to Pete. I'd bet that natural rockfall and that initiated by other climbers would comprise the vast majority of caualties of this type. My concern about golf balls is that they violate the LNT philosophy we all should necessarily be following. It all comes back to an understanding that there are consequences to our actions, especially as the "wilderness" continues to fill up with people.

Even if someone did actually go through with hitting a golf ball off the summit I would think the threat of hitting someone on the east face would be minimal. Even if someone were to carry their smallest and lightest club-usually a sand wedge- to the summit, a poorly struck shot would travel at least 50 yards (150 feet) out from the summit and then fall straight down. I would think the people at Iceberg Lake would be in the greatest danger.

Now, a 15-20 pound rock is a completely different story. You'd have to use two hands and almost throw it in a shot-put manner away from your chest. I would think that the furthest it would travel away from the east face would be no more than 20 feet. Then you risk contact with climbers.
Regardless, hitting a golf ball or throwing a rock from the summit of a mountain are both foolish activities that belong at the driving range or a lake. My heart goes out to Pete's wife and daughter. Such a senseless way to go.

Some of you guys just don’t get it; whether a golf ball or large rock or any other objects YOU DO NOT THROW THINGS OFF OF SUMMITS!
This incident highlights the reason one should even in jest not talk about throwing or launching objects off of summits or cliff tops. There are people who either out of ignorance or total disregard for the safety of others engage in senseless acts of celebration. An experienced climber would never even think of doing such a thing and possibly endanger a fellow climber. And as for me I never lurk in the shadows or crevices.

I agree with Seh...if you are thinking about throwing anything off of the summit (or any other ledge) you should not be considered part of the hiking and climbing community. If you actually throw something I'd support denying you access and/or permits. You just don't belong there.

I think that this is preaching to the choir. 99.9% of all reasonable people know better than to throw a rock or launch any projectile off a mountain. It is that small percentage of ignorant and/or idiots that shoot bottle rockets out of their butts and do other really stupid things.

Kurt - I spent the night on the summit of Whitney on August 8th. It was quite an experience to see both the sunset and sunrise, and I was glad I did it. That afternoon, two guys completed a six-hour climb up the north-eastern face, then descended via the MR. There were day-hikers on the summit at the time these guys came over the top, and many of them were surprised. I think that many people forget that there are climbers that ascend the verticsl faces of Whitney. No one should even consider tossing anything, no matter how small, over these edges. As we now know, the consequences can be deadly.

Whitney Mike

Your comment reminds me of a crazy female Everest climber, I've forgotten her name, who wanted to be the first to have, shall we say, an intimate moment on the summit of Everest. Initiate the 8000 meter high club so to speak. She kept taunting the male climbers at base camp about helping her out. As far as I know, she did not accomplish her goal, but was seen crawling on her hands and knees towards the summit and refusing to be turned back by the climbers coming down.

Her name is Lydia Bradley and she was the 1st woman to summit Everest w/o oxygen.

Funny this should come up again ... on Saturday while guiding the MR route I found a golf ball a couple of hundred feet below the notch. I had went over into an alcove to pee and looked down and saw about a quarter of the golf ball sticking out of the sand. It was a Titleist 2 ball with ING Bank logo. I still have the ball ... anyone want to claim it ??

I was away from the internet yesterday so I'm responding to a few people above. Thanks to everyone who has so far contributed to this discussion. Any and all continued comments are welcome.

Rodney... I started a new thread with the hang gliding/base jumping issue.

seh and whhs... I agree with both of you.



Yes there are the LNT issues of generally not introducing anything into the environment that doesn't belong there. While definitely an important issue safety is number one. While unlikely, a golf ball can do harm. Like I mentioned above I darn near got hit with one once.



I'm not the most familiar with how a golf ball travels (I know there are engineers who spend a lot of time working for golf companies who try to figure this stuff out though) but I think we need to keep a couple things in mind. For one, although we call the East Face "vertical" it isn't a straight 90 degrees. It juts out a lot farther than many people realize. It would take a heck of a shot to get a ball to land at Iceberg Lake. Another thing to factor in is wind. A good strong gust is going to change where that ball ends up. With high altitude winds and thermals I think it very possible for a ball to end up way off of where it was intended to go.

More importantly though is that once a golf ball or any object that size and weight gets going it is plenty heavy enough to do serious life threatening damage. A 15-20 pound rock is also a big threat but it doesn't take anything nearly that big. It has even been pointed out that dropping a penny from the top of the Empire State Building would kill a bystander on the side walk below.



Well said. One of the main reasons I posted this thread is that I know for a fact that many folks who ascend the Main Trail are not aware there are climbers on other routes. I have topped out on the summit from the East Face and East Buttress routes and seen many surprised people asking where the heck I had come from.

When I do my Whitney lectures for Adventure 16 stores I'm very aware that the vast majority of people who attend them are planning on going up the Main Trail. There are an increasingly larger handful in attendance who have Mountaineer's Route and East Face aspirations but it's about 10:1 Main Trail vs. other routes. I be sure to include slides of those other routes in my talks though. I do this to let people know there are other alternatives and they are all classic climbs. It also makes everyone aware that there are people on any given day climbing up on 3-4 other routes on Whitney besides the Main Trail.

Thanks again everyone for your responses and keep 'em coming!

[quote=Kurt Wedberg] It has even been pointed out that dropping a penny from the top of the Empire State Building would kill a bystander on the side walk below.

Actually, this has been proven to be an urban myth. Because of a penny's poor aerodynamics vs mass, its terminal velocity is around 65mph--enough to sting you good but not cause serious harm. I'm thinking a golf ball would be more of an event