Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board How to dayhike Mt. Whitney

Lots of questions about the expected time from this place to that...when to start out, when to hit the cables, etc. Lots of excellent and helpful answers, too, but I think the new person may get lost in information overload. So here are some summary thoughts.

As far as the times of day the cable section will be safe (ice has melted), I cannot make predictions. So much depends on the nighttime low, wind, clouds and other weather factors. The remaining snow. But I will put it this way: If I were to arrive at the cables at 8 AM these days, I would be surprised if it was still icy. And if, on the descent, I found ice at 8 or even 9 PM, I would be surprised. All this assumes normal late June good weather.

I’ll be on the Main Trail again on Friday, and I have done this enough to know how it will go. I'll hike at a leisurely and steady pace, and may hit these spots 15 minutes earlier or later, but not by more. Here is my expectation:

• 5:00 AM Leave Whitney Portal
• 7:15 AM Bighorn Park (3.5 miles)
• 9:15 AM Trail Camp (6.3 miles)
• 11:00 AM Trail Crest (8.5 miles)
• 12:45 PM Summit (11 miles)
• 1:15 PM Leave Summit
• 2:30 PM Trail Crest
• 3:45 PM Trail Camp
• 6:15 PM Whitney Portal

For the Mountaineer's Route, the time to the summit is about the same. It is essentially the same elevation gain, and that is the primary driver. But the descent by that way can be an hour or more quicker than the Main Trail.

Fit people who don't make the mistake of burning themselves out early and who pay attention to hydration, altitude sickness control, etc., can beat these times by 20%. I could too, if I wanted to; but I go up to enjoy the day. People who are not acclimatized or prepared, or trained, can add 20% or more. The point is, if you can gauge your readiness for this climb by critically assessing how you do in training, you might then apply an appropriate scale factor to these times and get pretty close.

My casual observation is that I am around an average hiker nowadays. Not surprising, being a septuagenarian. But I think that actually I am still a little left of center: Some people go faster, but most go slower. I started to write that one of the things that slows me down is that I am fanatical about stopping every hour for ten minutes or even fifteen, to drink and nibble. But then I remembered: If I didn't do that, it would take me longer to get to the top. I also stop and take a fair amount of pictures, and talk to people. And I observe that almost everyone I meet has a heavier pack than I do, some considerably heavier.

And pace. I will always remember a story told by a fellow--older than me--I met about 20 years ago in the Palisades. He had been lucky to make a day climb with Norman Clyde once, and they picked up another man who was much younger. The fellow said that they went slowly. Norman would stop all the time, taking pictures or leaks, smelling the flowers and enjoying the sights. The young man had gone ahead early, and they lost sight of him. After a few hours, the fellow commented, "I wonder where he is." Norman pointed way back down the hill, and the fellow was so small he could barely be seen. Then Norman said "Pace...is everything."

Bob,
Thanks for posting your timeline. I have made it up to Trail Camp in four hours, but that is usually where I start losing steam. It usually takes me about 5 hours to do the remaining 5 miles. Maybe it was because I left before 4 am. Of course, everybody is different.

Bob,

That damn good pace for a youngster of 56, let alone a septuagenarian. I don't know if I could match in and I beat a bunch of kids up the mountain most days. I figure, if I trained hard for it I could do it in ~14 hours.

You mention people burning themselves out, this is very easy to do if you are unfamiliar hiking at these altitudes. Therefore, if you have a heart rate monitor, bring it. They are a big help for pacing.

My opinion is most will do it between 14 and 18 hours.

Just make sure you time your day hike to be back in time for a burger, fries, beer and a shower at the Portal Store.

Hi Bill,

We are in agreement on virtually all counts:


Very good point, if you aren't familiar with your body in these conditions.


My time above is 13:15 and I said that most people seem to take longer.


Yes on the first three, but no on the fourth. My wife says she doesn't care where I go or how long I stay, but I'd better come home in dirty clothes, needing a shower and shave.

Bob,

You crack me up!
Sounds like you picked a good wife!

CaT

"Pace is everything" That pretty much sums it up for hiking at altitude.

For the past 7 years I have enjoyed taking groups of 8-10 friends and acquaintances up to Whitney every year. Most of them are newbie’s. I would like to emphasize a couple of the things Bob mentioned in his hiking style that do make a bigger difference than most people give credence to.

1. Pack weight is crucial. Bob mentioned his pack is lighter than most. My guess is his daypack is probably 5-10 pounds lighter than average and his overnight pack is 20-25 pounds lighter. Over a 22-mile hike this makes a tremendous difference.

2. Take breaks. If you allow yourself to get fatigued at altitude you cannot recover while hiking. This leads to a significant drop in your body’s efficiency and ability to endure.

3. Eat and drink often. I have learned to force people with me to eat and drink a little every hour or so. Same concept applies as rest. If your body becomes dehydrated or undernourished while at altitude it is pretty much impossible to recover fully.

Best of all, if you do this you have time to enjoy the hike, talk to people and take a bunch of pictures.

Maybe she picked him -- you know, a guy who comes home needing a shower and a shave.

Right on as usual Bob, someone should throw this in the Orientation Noters for Whitney First Timres.

Bob,
Thanks for changing the subject and adding additional insight. I put a link to this thread in the Orientation Notes.

I'm surprised anyone hikes to get to the top of anything..heck..the only reason I go hiking is so that I can bring along all those fatty and delicious foods that I couldn't eat if I weren't hiking.. I mean..gorging yourself on Snicker's Bars, cheese sticks, peanut M&Ms, beef sticks...mmm... The hiking and all that camping stuff is all incidental to that.

Seriously though - the one thing I've learned from my trips out west to hike is that pace, particularly at the very beginning, is very important. Usually I'm so amped to be on the trail in the morning that I have to consciously slow down my pace on those first few miles so that I don't get all lathered up and waste energy on a ridiculous pace. Thankfully, all the guys that have seen fit to drag me up to the top of Whitney the past couple times have taken mercy on me and set a very nice and fun pace that allowed for taking pictures, videos, and telling stories...

I had a tri-athlete friend who set a blistering pace up to Barcroft Labs on the White Mtn. Trail and blew out his glycogen stores in the process. He made the summit but had truly miserable day.

I've done it twice myself on Mt. Whitney last year and Baldy a few years ago. It really takes the fun out of hiking.

I may regret getting into this subject again, but pace has little effect on calories consumed in moving from point A to point B. If his glycogen stores were adequate for a slow pace (and they probably were), they should have been adequate for a fast one.

Which is not to say that the fellow did non have a miserable day.

Alan, Are you sure about that? It seems that if a person starts out quickly and ends slowly, he carries the extra muscle fatigue that he acquired at the beginning of the hike for the whole hike, and his body is less efficient in using calories overall than if he had a moderate steady pace that took the same amount of time for the whole hike.

Similar reasoning applies to comparing a moderate steady pace to a fast steady pace, except that it's complicated by the extra calories burned by the base metabolism being used for a longer time for the slower pace. Maybe that was your point? There probably still is a significant effect of the body using the calories inefficiently when one goes too fast, and this may be a worse calorie loss than the loss from the base metabolism being used for a longer time for the case of the slower pace. There is probably some optimal speed for minimizing calorie loss that is less than the fastest possible pace and more than a Tai Chi type of pace.

For running, it is clear that one burns about as many calories in doing a mile in 4 minutes as doing it in 8 minutes. That does not mean that the faster effort doesn't leave the runner more fatigued -- it does. But muscle fatigue is not equivalent to caloric expenditure.

I was a bit glib about glycogen stores. Running fast means using glycogen stores more or less exclusively as fuel. But you can keep moving at some slow pace even if glycogen is depleted because you have plenty of fat stored up. (I don't mean specifically you, Bob. ) I was skeptical that this applies to the standard White Mountain hike, but I certainly agree that starting off too fast can lead to trouble over any distance, any time.

By the way, Bob, maybe it's time for us to get into a heavy discussion. We've been agreeing too much lately and people must be disappointed. But let's pick another topic, like whether marmots or bears are more overweight.

Bob K,

I don't know the proper name for it but this is what I was told by buy more than a few fitness freaks when I described what happened to me.

All I know, is my get up and go, got up left and it did not make it back for a return engagement. Each time it was within 3 miles of where I started my hiking day.

The bottom line is finding a pace you can hike at without going anaerobic is the best way to insure 22 mile round trip to Mt. Whitney in a day.

Bob, since members of our group are reading this thread, could you please write out what you have packed. Also, please include where water will be gotten and how much each person should start with in the morning. I appreciate this - as I cannot keep answering questions (I've got work to do and I have not yet packed myself).

BTW, dinner tonight at Seasons (I made reservations for 7) @ 1815 - 1830.

OK. Tomorrow's pack is a GoLite Ion, 9 oz. Inside:

• Light fleece shirt
• Lightweight DWR wind parka, with hood
• Lightweight wind pants (because I am wearing shorts)
• Lightweight gloves
• TP (8 sheets), sunscreen, mosquito repellent
• Headlamp
• Small first aid kit
• Emergency Mylar bivvy
• Pastrami sandwich, grapes, potato chips, candy bars (2), packaged crackers (2), jerky, Hostess pie--2 lbs gross
• 1 liter polyethylene canteen, empty

5.5 pounds total.

You can read about the water sources on the Main Trail. (And Mountaineer's Route, in case you're interested.) I carry my canteen empty until the last water at #12. Stop for a hearty drink at #2, 3, 4, 8, 11. Finally fill it up at #12 for the rest of the day, drinking and topping with snow until I get back to there.

Some people may want to get half a liter at #2, since it is two miles to the next source. But it makes no sense to carry water otherwise. (People with bladders can do their thing.)

And some people may prefer not to depend on snow above #12. In that case, they could bring two more 1 liter canteens, and fill up all three at #12. That will suffice until getting back.

Do you plan that we will all hike together? I assume that some will want to go at different rates. No need to answer here, but you might discuss it.

Afterthought: I assume you've mentioned sun hat, sunglasses, lip balm (30 SPF), ibuprofen in case of altitude headache, moleskin or duct tape for blisters. Snow gaiters aren't needed, but I like to wear shorties to keep out the jumping trail pebbles. Hiking poles (1 or 2), but if a person hasn't used them before, they'll probably feel awkward.

Bob,

I've always been a bit leery of 'drinking' snow along the trail on the backside. Thinking of all the folk stepping off the trail to pee and/or whatever...

I attended the Bob Rockwell School of Safe Water Drinking, but I think I missed the class where you explained your criteria for picking snow that's "safe" ?

Just curious what you look for; do you dig down a ways? etc., etc.

I go off the trail and find snow that is undisturbed. Then scrape the top layer away--perhaps two inches. Usually there will be no dirt specks beneath the surface, just clean snow. If there are, I move over a bit and try again. If still no luck, I just get what's there. I've never had a problem.

One nice thing about Mt. Whitney--that summit snow field almost always lasts all year, and there are small trickles out the bottom of it. Find one, dig a little depression, then use the lid of your canteen to scoop up the water. It takes a while, because you can only get a few tablespoons with each scoop, but it works. And the water is perfectly clean.

Thank you Bob for your insight about getting clean water on the trail. I usually fill up about one third of the way up the switchbacks from the water that is running across the trail. So far so good with no problems. Please let me know your thoughts are. I used to filter my water all the time.

Thank you,
Maureen