Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General The Mountain by a fair means Woman or man, what difference on Whitney?

I have trouble understanding why a woman's experience on Whitney would be much different than a man's? I've never noticed it being any different for a man than a woman? When it comes to longer expeditions there are more differences and difficulties that women experience, but are there on Whitney?

Why not have a special forum for men too?

Men have a higher strength to weight ratio than women do (in general). I have to work harder then my men friends to maintain the same pace on big bike rides, hikes, etc. I have to be fitter relative to my own natural abilities than they do in order to stay together when doing something that calls for strength and endurance.
Also, I think men and women do have different experiences and different perspectives in many aspects of life. I'm no expert, having spent my entire life as a woman, but I enjoy so much the close friendships I have with men in part because I see such a different side of the world when I try and look through their eyes.
I think both men and women are welcome on this thread, it's just a way to focus a little more on the women specific perspective. If you feel the men need a forum to focus on the specific male perspective I'm sure that could be arranged, and I'm sure women would be welcome to comment there as well.

Just to clarify, wingding is also a woman.

Rather than splinter this forum into too many separate factions -- (like the ridiculous politicians do ), I'd prefer seeing most of the traffic in the one main forum.

My wife, being 5' has to take two steps for every one of mine (6' and long legs).

This makes the experience quite a bit different for her than me.

For what that's worth.

Also, her smaller feet (wears kids sizes) provide less traction on slippery or sandy surfaces. Again, stuff I walk across without a thought are a little more challenging for her.

I agree very much.

well I certainly don't want to be considered a ridiculous politician.

I belong to a women's cycling team and I'm sort of used to having "seperate but equal" events, forums etc. There is a men's team as well of course and though we sometimes ride together we are definitely seperate.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to encourage splintering. And of course climbing Whitney is not a competitive endevour (for most) so segregating based on gender isn't important like it is in most competititve sports. It was just my perspective, but I do see yours, and I don't disagree.

I don't think that having this forum splinters anything, really. A few weeks ago over dinner, I asked Doug if he knew a reason(s) as to why there were so few 'regular' female posters on the WPSMB. We brainstormed for a while, and he decided to give this forum a try.

Now, I took a few days after reading Kathy's post to try to give as rounded an answer as possible.

1) First and foremost, everyone's experience on Whitney, and beyond, is completely different, regardless of gender. Each one of us has our individual goals for a trip, looks for different things in the surroundings, themselves, and the other members of the party. The only constant that exists is that we all (those of us who undergo the activity regularly) derive some pleasure from our experiences-- even the toughest and most demanding trips have moments of joy, or at least something we can look back on and laugh. That's what keeps us coming back, no matter if we are male or female.

2) Women tend to express themselves about their trips differently than men. That by NO MEANS suggests that men are incapable of expressing emotion or details. One only needs to read the works of John Muir, Edward Abbey, and Henry David Thorough (to name a very few) to be brought along on their magnificent adventures, both long and short. I would think generally that there is a lot more straightforward information in the reports I've seen from men (take the recent MR attempt in the storm), while a woman writing it might infuse emotions as well as the beta. I know I write that way, and another great example is from Woman on the Rocks: The Mountaineering Letters of Ruth Dyar Mendenhall:

"John's [Mendenhall] prose style alternated between the manly and the florid, quite unlike Ruth's spontaneous letter writing. One example is a partial letter from Ruth about Canada's Great Rock Tower...The approach to the mountain began with a grueling 3-day backpack; they roped up to cross a glacier, ... Ruth spent eight pages recording mileages and altitudes, scenic views, wildlife, campsites, everything they ate, and how they joked with their companions. John's account for publication boils the approach down to this: 'Our climbing camp was occupied on July 30. To the south rose the mighty battlements of Alberta.'"

For some reason I feel the need the include that this is my opinion alone. Feel free to disagree.

3) Biomechanical Differences. Some have already been mentioned above. Now, being pretty dern tall myself, I don't suffer for stride length or reaches. But I definitely carry loads extremely differently than the guys I have been hiking/packing with. Because women do shoulder the load differently, we have other issues to contend with when it comes to injuries, stresses, and even rehab. Body comp also comes into play here, and while the relative brevity of the MMWT and the MR may not make this as obvious, there's more than one way to get to the summit of Whitney. A forum like this might foster more discussion of women's physical issues.

4) Women's Medical Issues: kind of relates to #3, but some women might feel more comfortable asking about, say, how birth control pills might influence how they do at altitude. Remember, this is coming from someone who really has no issue with posting anything anywhere, but some women might find that a bit uncomfortable.

5) Training: Men and women train differently. There are a lot of similarities, but there is a difference. They also approach training differently, and have different goals in mind for the training. For example: "I'm going to run every day for 3-5 miles so I can lose weight for my next backpacking trip, as well as get in a little better cardio shape." It's a difference in priorities.

6) Perhaps this could be a forum for women to reach out to each other and form a nice network. I've been really lucky to meet a bunch of outstanding women through the board as a whole, and would love to expand that.

Bottom line, even though everyone can access this forum (Until Doug Sr puts a 'No Boys Allowed' sticker on the tree house door! ), I think it's a nice idea. If you don't want to post to it, don't. Lord knows I put enough down on the Main Board myself!

It's a nice experiment, at the very least!
-L

I guess I've always just thought of myself as a hiker or backpacker depending on what I'm doing and not a woman hiker or woman backpacker. We all know that women tend to be smaller than men, but that doesn't mean we look at the mountains differently. As was previously stated, the physical differences between man and women do play a bigger role when it comes to competitive sports, but hiking or climbing Whitney isn't typically thought of as a competitive event.

It might be that when I see women's issues segregated to another forum, it scares me because I know how much hard work women have put in over the years to be treated equally in many areas of life.

I'll just post on the general forum that isn't gender specific in the future because that's more comfortable for me.

I agree with you completely Kathy. When I first saw this forum opened, my reaction was (RME) one of embarrassment for "us women folk". Duh, guess I'd better return to the house and grab my dust pan.

I guess I could start some threads though, like Menses on the Main Trail or Getting my Cramp-On or Crying While Climbing.

If you are a female on this msg board and want to get things off yer chest, do what I did on SP (but I must warn you, this is not a chatter board)

Sometimes it's Tough being a Female Mountaineer

That thread did take a humorous turn - cookies and cupcakes.

Laura - I know (as one man) I appreciate your emotional infusions when you write. The challenge of hiking Whitney brings out a lot in each of us and I am glad when someone like yourself includes more than just the beta. Especially the after-hike celebration!

Hello, this is my first time on any message board so please excuse any faux pas. I don't want to be on the political side of the male/female issue, but I am a woman about to climb Mt. Whitney and if I can get some tid bits from a woman's perspective in addition to all the wonderful info I've already received, I would appreciate it. I personally don't feel "less than" simply because I have a different experience in a female body. Yes, what about moon-time on the trail? How about tips on maintaining core warmth if my yoni stays wet? Is there any privacy on the trail for peeing? Etc. These issues all pertain to my female body, although if there are any men out there who've gotten answers to these questions from their female friends I'm open to hearing it. I also understand that I'll generate my own experience once I'm on the mountain, but a little preparation never hurt anyone:). Thank you for any feedback that may come my way...

Nube, welcome to the Board! It has served as a source of inspiration, information, and sharing for me since I started visiting in August of 2006 (yeah, I know, people, it seems like 4evah!!).

This forum was not meant to be political in any way, just seems to have -- as all things do -- rubbed some the wrong way. Can't please everyone, for sure!

So, ask away! Throw whatever you want out there. I know I like to converse and discuss issues here, and if I can help, I will!

-Laura

PS: Above tree line, not so much privacy!

Hello Laura, thanks for the quick response! Okay what about moon-time on the mountain? Does blood attract bears and are they above outpost camp? Do I need to put my pads in the waste bag or the bear canister? Do you have issues with maintaining core warmth if your yoni stays wet (ovulation time ? And if I need to change out of cooler climate clothes into warmer is it just understood that people will have to deal with each others' semi-nude bodies? These are my initial questions and I have more. I'd love your feedback, any advice, and the sharing of your experience on Mt. Whitney if you'd care to share. Look forward to hearing from you- thanks for the welcome! Nube

Nube, a friend once told me she prefers to hike in a skirt because it was so much easier to pee. It could sure make that part of the privacy issue more convenient.

Hi Steve! Thank you for that! I have been considering the skirt option mainly for comfort, but I can really see the advantage in easy accessibility and privacy- thanks again! Nube

Hmmm... I haven't seen anything that suggests that menstrual blood would attract bears. Vampire bears? There are lots of critters up there, as described in a few other recent threads on the main board, which will also try to get into anything scented. Marmots and crows being perhaps the most vicious!



I believe the wag bags are for human waste only, so pads/tampons probably should not be placed in there. I usually triple bag mine, carry them separately during the day, then place another plastic bag layer between them if I do have to secure them. I have also placed them in a separate sack and hung them away from camp/food and not had a problem with them being disturbed.



Haven't noticed a correlation here, but I was on some birth control pills that only had me ovulating once every 3 months and I didn't particularly notice that I was colder. I tend to sleep chilly anyway, and I especially had trouble a few times over the past winter during at least one snow camp. What really helped were those heat patches, which I would use everywhere before I went to bed.



As one of the guys noted this past weekend, I was just on the trip as something to 'look at'. Yeah, right. I paddled for an outrigger canoe club in SoCal for six years, and pretty much mastered the 'beach change', but I also just don't have much of an issue in changing clothes when I need to. My take is that others just need to get over it!

Hope this is of some use to you! Good luck!

-L

Hi Nube,

Congrats on you upcoming hike. The preparation and training are all part of the fun. As for my background, I've summited Mt Whitney ten times (in the last ten years), most were day hikes or the beginning of the John Muir Trail hike.

As for privacy on the trail, below the tree line you will have many opportunities to squat. At trail camp you can use the potty.(It was there last year, should be this year) and there is a makeshift potty on the summit. As for me I just pull over and go quickly, never leaving any paper behind. Number two is reserved for the outhouse or I use a wagbag and move as far off the trail as possible.

When changing clothes I just turn my back on any people I may be with or stangers in/nearby. I've never witnessed anyone staring at me while I was changing or going potty.

As for your menstrual blood I don't belive it attracks bears. I have hiked/fastpacked numerous times (on my period) with bears in camp and nver had a problem. Bears are looking for food, the sweeter the better.

Storing used feminine products. I store them in separate bags along with any tp keeping them away from my food source. I do make sure the bag is in the bear cannister as animals will eat the paper.

Hope that helps and have a safe trip.

Maureen

potty? outhouse?

In 1967 two female hikers in Glacier National Park were killed in their tent by a bear and there was speculation that menstruation may have been a factor. The story was widely covered in the media and I remember reading about it in Sports Illustrated.

There has been some research on this topic. A report from Kerry Gunther of the Yellowstone Park Bear Management, cited by Yellowstone Outdoors Adventures says that: “Menstrual odors were essentially ignored by black bears of all sex and age classes. In an extensive review of black bear attacks across North America, no instances of black bears attacking or being attracted to menstruating women was found (Cramond 1981, Herrero 1985, Rogers et al. 1991).”

Apparently there is some evidence that menstrual blood odor may attract polar bears but you will not find them in the Sierras. The research also shows no connection between death by grizzlies, the kind of bears that killed the GNP hikers, and menstruation. My thought is that back in 1967 there were fewer women adventuring into the wilderness and the reporters sought an exotic explanation for their story. These reports apparently took on a life of their own and became legend.

Common sense precautions and proper bear protocol is probably the best approach to take.

For further information: http://www.yellowstone-bearman.com/menstruation_data.html