Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Gear question

Ok all of you experienced people out there! Another question from the as of yet uninitiated!

I am looking into renting/buying my pack. My question is this:

What is the main difference in functionality between internal and external frame packs? Is there one that works better for smaller body builds? I am a 5'00' woman who weighs less then 130... I need something that is going to fairly distribute the weight I need to carry without totally wrecking my balance but that is also going to be comfortable enough to not totally destroy my back and shoulders while I'm at it.

Suggestions? Advice? Recommendations?

Thanks!!!
~Chris

Internal frame packs are lighter. External have more pockets so are therefore easier to pack and organize. I have two old external frame packs, but just purchased a 1.5 lb GoLite Jam2 pack. I used it on my 7-day hike part of the JMT.

I packed my Bear Vault in the main part inside with a thermarest pad encircling it. That provided all the rigidity that a frame might have provided.

Lightness wins over convenience.

I have hiked all sorts of places in my frame packs, and really had no trouble. But I won't go on another long backpack with one anymore due to the weight issues. If you can get your dry weight (without food and water) down to ten to fifteen pounds, you can really cruise.

I have found that the internal frames have gotten heavier as they have evlolved, although I haven't compared them to a modern external frame. I recently bought a Gossamer Gear Mariposa Plus which weighs 1 lb 5 ozs and is a very comfortable pack. I was shocked, however, when I compared the weight of a Gregory Baltero (which was about 5.5 lbs, my Mariposa plus and then my old external frame which I bought when I was a boyscout over 20 years ago at a garage sale for $5.00. It weighs about 2 lbs. Today's ultralight packs save much of the weight by doing away with zippers and frames. Amazingly, this old pack has 6 zippers a large pack and a full frame, and yet weighs less than some of the ultralight packs. I'm sure it is not the slightest bit rain resistant (although a spray of Scotchguard or a coat of silicon might do the trick). I'm also sure that its harness is nowhere near as comfortable as today's harnesses. Still, I was amazed to see just how heavier our more sophisticated mainstream packs have become today than they were when first started backpacking as a boy.

Brent

Thanks Steve!!!!

That is all good information to have. I will look around and do some comparision shopping...

I've been doing a lot of research on gear weight over the past 2 years; complete with spreadsheets and "what-if" scenarios. I've been seeking to strike a balance between on-back weight with in-camp comfort. It's a little harder for me because everything I buy has to be a "long" or xxl.

For packs - there are a ton that weigh-in at 4-8+lbs range empty. There is a lot to choose from in that range. If you don't mind the empty weight, it's just a personal preference.

For lighter packs, GoLite and Granite Gear seem to be the brands of choice. I'm not a fan of the GoLites. But that's personal preference.

My current trial is with Granite Gear Vapor Trail. At 2lbs 2oz for the small (2lb 7oz for the Long that I have)
http://www.granitegear.com/products/backpacks/comparison/index.html - it has a good suspension, good hip belt, hydration pocket external of the pack and carries enough for ~ 4 day trip.

For suspending larger, heavier loads, I've always preferred the suspension of the Osprey Packs. They are still light - 3-4lbs depending on size, but they'll haul a larger load. I use the Osprey Exposure 66 for winter trips. I just replaced the Aether 60 with the Vapor Trail for summer stuff.

Backcountry.com is a great place to try things out. They offer free shipping and no sales tax - and a 100% satisfaction guarantee. That way, if you buy something and it's not quite right, you just ship it back. Even paying for the return shipping, you come out ahead. oh, and the shipping is wicked quick. What you buy is normally shipped same day and delivered within 2-3 to SoCal even when using the "Free- 7-10 day economy" shipping option.

Good luck.

I have an Osprey pack and love it. It is extremely comfortable. I did need to adjust the way that I pack due to the internal frame that keeps the pack off your back. I also bought the pack at backcountry.com and it was about $50.00 cheaper than at REI or any other place that I could find it, and the shipping is wicked fast.

Anything that saves money is worth looking at at least once!!! Backcountry.com here I come!

Because of your petite stature, you may want to go get fitted at a brick and mortar first and see what they have to offer. I found the folks at REI quite knowledgable about the size backpack that I should be looking for. As it turns out, they didn't have the brand I wanted so I went on the net, but I was glad that I could narrow down the size that I needed.

Brent

Petite stature.. I like the way that sounds!

I think what I'm going to do is take one of the guys advice and go to REI... use their "models" to take some dry runs around the store for fit, size and comfort.. and then I'm going to raid the net and see what I can find for cheaper!!

REI helped me choose my hiking boots several months ago when I wanted to start breaking them in and they were spot on about those...

I second what Brent said. I did go to REI to try on the Osprey pack that I was looking for and as it turns out, they did not carry that model. However, the man helping me had the exact pack I was looking for and let me try on his personel pack. I have also had very good service when my wife bought her pack. She wore it on a hike and the buckles happened to rub her arms in a spot that was uncomfortable. They took it back no questions asked.

There was a defect in the original pair of boots that I bought there and it was rubbing the bottom of my big toe raw.. hurt like heck... anyways.. I has just fought for an hour wiht Walmart to return a pair of my sons shoes and I expected the same at REI... I was in and out in under 10 minutes. They were great.

Maybe I'll hit them on lunch Monday!!!

Packs really have to be fitted. This means using a local outfitter.

I'm a fan of Osprey and Gregory and own a couple of pack from each of these manufacturers. Everyone here has the style and preferences. My style has more to do with comfort, amenities and convenience than ultralight pack weights. My choice of packs reflects this. This is not to say weight isn't an issue, it is. I carried an Ursack Hybrid as a canister last year and Wild Ideas Canister this year because they were and are the lightest options.

Your gear and style determine the pack that is right for you.

I also had a good experience with REI staff fitting me with a pack. I am 5' 3" 115 lbs and I bought a Gregory Jade 50. It worked great... although being slight I did have some rubbing on my shoulder blades and hip bones on long hikes but shifting the load periodically eased that. The most helpful thing for me was wearing it on training hikes loaded with weight in the weeks before my Whitney trip.

Good luck and have fun

Leslie

Both types of packs (internal & external) have there good and bad points:

Internal: Takes more time to adjust and fit, and the adjustment usually has to be changed if load changes significantly. Better in off-trail/uneven terrain and winter travel on snow, since it holds closer to your body. Also be aware that USUALLY the lighter the weight of an internal frame pack, the less you'll be able to carry comfortably. They are also heavily advertised these days . . . the 'hipper, cooler' design.

External: Hip and shoulder belts can be easily adjusted. Most stuff is easier to access, since its usually has lots of pockets to keep small stuff available, and frame can be used to lash things on to the outside. Frame design usually holds the pack away from your body, keeping your back cooler. Since its away from your body, it can sway and might make balancing a little tougher on rough terrain. Can be tough to find, and only a limited number of models availalbe. Usually inexpensive.

My "pack of choice" is an external frame 'Camp Trails' brand pack I bought 25 years ago (company is now defunct). It weighs 3.5 lbs empty, lots of pockets, and is comfy as hell. I've replaced the shoulder straps and hip belt twice. Kelty still makes a good one (Tioga, I think) that you can get at REI for about $100. Great deal if you're only planning trips on trails and/or just summer trips with minimal off-trail scrambling.

If I'm going out in winter, or on mixed off-trail terrain, I'll defer to the internal frame pack. Its heavier, but easier to balance. Minimum number of pockets, but that means minimum number of things to catch on trees and brush. Mine's a Lowe Netherworld 90 (about 4.5 lbs, not made anymore) and it works great. Not as rugged as the other brands mentioned above, but it should last me quite a while. REI and other vendors have TONS of different brands and models.

Consider what you'll use the pack for, then go to a store with a good selection (internal AND external frames), try a few on, and see how they fit. Err on a pack with a little extra weight if its more comfy - a sore back in the backcountry can ruin a trip!

Phydeux said almost everything I was going to say, and they are all valid points.

A lot of the internal frame packs that are ultralight gain that weight advantage by sacrificing comfort, load carrying capabilities, pockets, compartments, etc. If you compare feature-equivalent internal frame packs with external frame packs, you will find that they are about the same weight. The reason you don't see any ultralight external frame packs is that there are no bare-bones models available. Personally, I don't hike well when I get hot, so the better back ventilation (and cooler hiking) offered by external frame packs is important to me. I use a Jansport Carson, and there aren't many internal frame packs available that offer the same features and weigh close to the same as the Carson, let alone less.

Not only is it unethical, it is downright theft. You are taking the outfitters time (money), the use of his building (money) and use of his financed inventory (money).

I don't know that I necessarily agree with this statement. So long as you don't harrass the employees, don't leave the gear that you "borrowed" scattered all over the place... and don't make a nusance of yourself. I think what your saying is almost the same as saying that test driving a car and then not buying it would be "stealing" from the dealership.

Also... sometimes you can simply go to the website of that particular store and find a better price on their website catalog. Just because you don't purchase it there at the store doesn't mean your "theiving" from the company.

However... I'm here to talk hiking not consumer ethics!! Thank you, though, for sharing your thoughts WBTravis...


~Chris

No, based on your statement. You are going into a retailer local, utilize the store, the employees time, inventory with no intention of buying his goods after they provided you with a place to go, products to touch, feel and try on. I don't know what else to call it. At best, it is unethical, at worst theft.

You may not be here to talk consumer ethics but you are the one brought up what many would consider an unethical practice.

I'm a big fan of light packs, currently using a ULA Circuit and an older Gossamer Gear G4. The Circuit is about 2.5 pounds with a carbon fiber hoop stay and good padding for suspension. The G4 weighs 14 ounces and uses a sleeping pad in a pocket for padding and a little support. The probably with any lightweight pack is that many buy a light pack and try to put their heavy gear in it. The G4 works great under 25 pounds total weight. The Circuit can handle more, but not an old-school 60-pound load. Get the tent and sleeping bag weight down first, then look around.

These packs are "not available in stores" but Brian and Glen provide great service by phone and email.

As for price shopping, I do my first research on line, then visits stores to see the item if I'm not sure it's what I want. If I'm interested and they are higher, I ask them if they can match the price. Some do, some come close, some don't. Remember to factor in your dividend for REI. I do consider shipping costs, including the hassle of mailing something back if it doesn't work out.

I am with SoCalGirl on this one. You are giving the local retailer the chance to get business. If they are not price competitive, it is ok to buy the product elsewheree. Free enterprise rules. Also, many times you look at other things in the store and end up buying something. If you were to ask the retailer, he would likely agree that having traffic in his store is important, even if you don't always buy something.

I am always amazed at what REI and others charge for their products. If they are not competitive after considering shipping and handling charges from other sellers, I think it is ok to buy it from the other sellers. In any case, it isn't stealing.