Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board The Shave 5-10lbs in Pack weight Challenge

I saw this comment in another thread. It's a slow afternoon. I saw this post and thought I'd accept the offer. Whittle away

All weights are based on the gear I own as packed - weighed on digital counter top scale. Gear for a summer,3 night/4 day trip with chance of rain/afternoon thundershowers in the forecast. Assumes I'm wearing 1 day's worth of clothing.

Summary here; details below:
Base Weight: Pack, Sleeping, Shelter: 11.24 lbs
Fuel, Cooking, Water Containers: 2.68 lbs (w/o Bear Canister)
Safety and Emergency gear: 1.39 lbs
Hygiene: 0.68lbs
Clothes: 5.44lbs

Total Weight - 4 day trip before food = 21.44lbs
Total Weight - 4 day w/summit pack add-on = 23.21lbs
Total Weight - 4 day trip before food w/bear canister = 24.591lbs

Detail lists:

BASE GEAR
Backpack - Osprey Aether 60: 59.625 oz
If peak-bagging is on the agenda from a base camp- add: Life-Link Granite Day pack: 28.25oz

Big Agnes Zirkel 20 degree bag L in stuff sack: 36 oz
Big Agnes Air Core Insulated Mummy pad L: 24 oz
Closed Foam Shorty sit pad: 2.25 oz

Black Diamond Lighthouse tent in stuff sack: 37.25 oz
Tent poles and stakes in bag: 19.25 oz

Fuel, Cooking, Water Containers:
Small MSR Fuel Canister: 8 oz
Snowpeak Litemax stove: 2 oz
1L Ti Pot with lid: 7.625 oz
Nalgene Wide Mouth camp canteen 96oz: 2.75 oz
Aquafina water bottle 1L empty: 1.75 oz
Ti mug: 2oz
MSR Al Bowl: 3.625 oz
Plastic Spoon and Fork: 0.25oz
Small wash cloth: 2 oz
Bear Boxer Bear Canister (only when required): 29.625 oz
Kevlar Varmit Bag: 7.5 oz

Safety and Emergency gear:
Petzl Tikka Plus with Batteries - headlamp: 2.75 oz
Swiss Army Knife: 2.125 oz
Waterproof/windproof matches - 10 in container: 1 oz
First Aid (+ spare batteries & emergency blanket): 9.125 oz
Bug Spray: 4 oz
Lens Cloth: 0.25 oz
Hard Sunglasses case: 2oz

Hygiene:
Sunscreen: 2 oz
Deodorant: 1.875 oz
Toothpaste: 0.75 oz
Toothbrush: 0.5 oz
Handi-wipes: 2 oz
Floss: 0.125 oz
Lip balm: 0.5 oz
Hand sanitizer: 1.25 oz

Clothes (assume 4 days - not counting clothes on me at the time)
Rain Jacket - XL: 13.875 oz
Rain/wind Pants - XL: 11.625 oz
Hiking Socks 3/4 - 1 pair/day x 3 days = 6 oz (2 oz each pair)
Underwear: 4.75 oz
Kuhl Hiking shorts: 12.75 oz
Arc'Teryx T-shirt XXL (1xday x 3 days @ 4.625 oz ea.: 13.875 oz
Down Jacket: 18.375 oz
Lightweight Long sleeve shirt: 7.375 oz
Lightweight Long johns: 6.25 oz
Wool Cap: 1.5 oz
Full finger cycling gloves: 3.75 oz

Thank you for this guidance in gear... May be able to lighten my pack a lil bit more!

Bullet,

First of all I'll say great job on getting the weight of your gear down. I would wager to bet it's lighter than a lot of people's loads are. We can make it lighter but part of this is personal preference and how much creature comforts you want to bring. I'm getting ready to go to sleep tonight so I'll look at this again in the morning but below are a few suggestions.

You have a digital scale which is something I'd love to have but currently don't so the weights I'm giving are what the manufacturer says. These are average weights based on a selection of several samples of the same item. Given all that here are some ideas:

Base Gear:
Wild Things Spectra Andinista Pack - 3 lbs 9 oz
Mountain Hardwear Phantom 45 degree bag - 16 oz
Granite Gear XS Compression stuff sack - 2.5 oz
Nylon Waterproof tarp with grommets - 12 oz
100' nylon cord to rig tarp for rain - 6 oz
Thermarest Prolite 3 Regular size - 20 oz

Total weight = 7 lbs 2 oz
Difference = 4 lbs

Things I'd eliminate off your load to go lighter:
Foam sit pad - the Andinista pack has a removable pad 2.5 oz
3 pairs hiking socks - one good pair of wool socks for 4 days is plenty 6 oz
Kevlar Varmit bag - use stuff sack from sleeping bags 7.5 oz
Your 3 extra Arc'Teryx shirts - one shirt is plenty for 4 days 13.875 oz

Total = 29.875 oz (1 lb 13.875 oz)

Total weight savings = 5 lb 13.875 oz

One big piece of weight savings is the tarp versus a tent. This assumes one knows some tricks for rigging it correctly. Don't try this in the field until you know how to rig it.

I'll look for some more weight savings.

In the meantime I think we should invite some input from others. I'll bet our combined knowledge on this board could lead to some great ideas for everyone.

My base pack without food used to typically be 30-35 pounds. I hadn't been backpacking for 8 years since our first child was born and decided to hike the JMT this summer. I wanted to have a nice comfortable pack that I wouldn't mind carrying for 10 hours a day- that meant lighter weight. Also I didn't want to hike out for a food resupply so that meant I need to cover 110 miles with one bear can of food.

The first trip in 8 years was last month with the family. My pack for 4 days was 52 pounds- but that was with me carrying most of the group gear and almost all my son's gear. Miles were low so it wasn't a problem but it definitely reminded me that I want to lighten.

A buying frenzy has shaved a bunch of weight.

My new pack just arrived yesterday and the first test pack plus estimates for stuff not bought has it hovering around 16 pounds. I should start my weeklong segment with only 32 pounds including what I'm wearing.

Some of the biggest savings were a new 2 pound pack instead of my old 7 pound model, 20 ounces for raingear instead of 4 pounds, 36 ounce shoes instead of 4 pound boots, bivy instead of tent, lighter cook system, antibacterial wool shirt and synthetic underwear with no spares, much simpler first aid kit. Basically much less stuff.

Here's the list

Ounces Have, Bought, or Need

PACKING
31.00 Bought Pack Six Moon Designs Starlight w/ stays
1.00 Bought Water bottle carrier On shoulder strap
2.00 Bought Rain protection Plastic bag liner
34.00 Ounces
2.13 Pounds
SHELTER
18.00 Have Tent EW Bivy
Groundcloth None
28.00 Have Sleeping bag Moonstone Liner
27.00 Have Pad Thermarest LE
73.00 Ounces
4.56 Pounds
COOKING
6.00 Need Stove Jetboil
8.00 Need Pot Jetboil
2.00 Need Plastic cup
0.25 Need Lexan spoon Rehydrate
1.00 Have Knife Swiss
0.75 Need Lighter bic
0.50 Stuff sack
18.50 Ounces
1.16 Pounds
BEAR CAN
43.00 Have Bear Can Garcia Machine
43.00 Ounces
2.69 Pounds
CLOTHES IN PACK
17.00 Bought Rain parka Marmot Precip Adventurer
3.00 Bought Rain pants ULA Rain Skirt
0.00 Warm Jacket none
7.00 Have Early Winters Fuzzy shirt (light fleece)
0.00 Thermal pants none
4.00 Have Balaclava Black wool snood
0.00 Gloves none
2.63 Bought Socks, spare_1 3/4 crew Smartwool
2.00 Bought Socks, spare_2 Rhoner light trekking
8.00 Have Pants Ex Officio (Sawyer Permethrin)
43.63 Ounces
2.73 Pounds
WATER
3.00 Have Bottle Empty water bottles 27 oz x 2
1.00 Need Purification tablets ClO2 (suspect water only)
4.00 Ounces
0.25 Pounds
TOILETRIES
0.50 Bought Stuff sack Aloksak
0.50 Have Toothbrush
1.00 Have Toothpaste Crest mini-tube
0.50 Have Deodorant Small Crystal stick
0.50 Have Soap Dr.Bronners
2.00 Have Toilet paper & ziplock bag
1.00 Have Baby Wipes Dried, in ziploc w/ TP
0.00 Have Pack towel Bandana, worn
1.25 Need Insect repellent 1 oz 100% DEET
2.50 Have Sunscreen 2 oz. (RESUPPLY)
1.50 Have Bug head net
9.75 Ounces
0.61 Pounds
MEDS
0.50 Bought Stuff sack Aloksak
0.10 Have Antihistimine 4
0.50 Have Ibuprophen 36
0.10 Have Imodium 4
1.00 Have Storm matches In plastic match safe
0.75 Have Ace bandage 2"
2.00 Have Blister care Assortment Moleskin
1.00 Have Blister care Hydropel 1/2 tube
1.00 Bought Blister care Leukotape 5'
1.00 Have Rope 1/8" cord
0.25 Have Sewing kit
8.20 Ounces
0.51 Pounds
MISC
3.00 Have Headlamp Black Diamond LED
8.00 Have Camera With battery
0.50 Have Car Key Subaru
3.00 Have Navigation Maps JMT Map Pack in Aloksak
0.50 Need Navigation Tiny Compass
15.00 Ounces
0.94 Pounds

TOTAL PACK WEIGHT, DRY
15.57 Pounds

WORN
36.00 Have Shoes Montrail Cont. Div. w/orthotics
4.00 Need Shorts Running
2.00 Have Underwear Duo-Dry Antimicrobial
5.00 Have Shirt Icebreaker 140 T
3.00 Have Socks Smartwool 3/4 crew light trek
6.00 Have Hat Ultimate Hat
1.00 Have Bandana Blue
2.00 Have Sunglasses
Trekking poles No
0.25 Have Chapstick
0.50 Have Whistle
59.75 Ounces
3.73 Pounds
TOTAL SKIN OUT WEIGHT, DRY
19.30 Pounds

Consumables
1.14 Need Fuel 1 can/week=1.14 oz/day
24.00 Need Food & Packaging 1.5 pounds per day
176.00 7 Days Food & Fuel
27.00 Water 1 Bottle full most of the time
203.00 Ounces
12.69 Pounds

28.25 TOTAL PACK WEIGHT FOR WEEK
31.99 TOTAL SKIN OUT WEIGHT FOR WEEK

I agree with Kurt on the concept of what you are willing to do.

Nowadays, I would go "cold" on my food for such a trip, for the most part. That would eliminate the Fuel and cooking containers, and my water containers are very lite, in the range of a couple ounces each, so that is 2# gone, along with the stove and fuel, 10 oz. If I'm in an area where I will have a fire, I can use my aluminum or Ti Cup to make a warm beverage, probably the only thing I'd be missing.

In any case, I eat out of my cup, or the package, never use a bowl

-45 oz.

I'd probably go with a lighter pack, around 18-20 oz, but for most a good compromise choice would be
Granite Gear Vapor trail 37oz vs. 59oz

- 22 oz

Oh, and I'd use the same pack for the summit pack

- 28 oz

"by the end of last season roughly 40% of AT thru-hikers were carrying the Vapor Trail, largely due to its exceptional comfort."

Sleeping bag:
Western Mountaineering Highlite
35deg 16 oz

- 20 oz

sleeping pad: Closed cell foam pad (1/2 length) 8oz
- 16 oz
Use foam pad for sitting
-2 oz

BD Lightsabre bivy tent 26 oz, incl poles+ needed stakes, 1 oz
27 oz

- 30 oz

The need for the varmit bag escapes me
- 7 oz

Most of the extra clothing I'd consider extraneous:
I would take a WP/B jacket, but no warmth layer, if I'm going to be where I have a campfire for warmth.
I don't bother with waterproof pants, the synthetics dry so fast, and they bead minor moisture.
I don't have another layer of longjohns, or extra shorts or shirt.
My system is 4 pairs of socks: two wool, two liners. At the end of the day, I rinse out the ones I've worn, leave them to dry, put on the extra wool ones for sleep. Next day the damp go on my pack, and are dry by the end of the day, when I reverse.

I use synthetic zip off pants. soak and wring my shirt daily.

So, for extra clothing:

Frogg Toggs WP/B jacket: 8 oz
extra underwear 3 oz
sock sets: 6 oz total
wool cap : 2 oz
total: 19 oz

- 81 oz
------------------------
So quick and dirty, I'd save 251 oz, or about 15.5 lbs off of the total of 24.59 lbs, for a total weight for a 4day/3 nite trip, in the ballpark of around 9 lbs. (before food)(including bear can)

I doubt that you'd experience much differently between the two setups. If you chose to go with hot food, you would not even need to go more efficiently than you have, and still add only 2.8 lbs back in.

It's amazing what is possible.

What I'm learning is that lightening the pack requires three things:

Money to buy lighter gear.
Willpower to leave behind stuff that you've always carried.
Willingness to try new ideas.

Multi-use items are important, but even better is just leave it behind. I've learned that for solo trips I never need much in the way of warm clothing. I don't sit around at night or in the early morning- I'm either in my sleeping bag or doing things that keep me warm.

If I were to do a long dayhike or summit attempt I could bring the whole pack and it wouldn't weigh much more than a well-equipped day pack. Just leave the bear can and cooking system behind- also no worries about gear getting chewed up by critters.

I have tried to limit money spent on new gear this year. I could easily save another few pounds off my 16 lb baseweight with a few hundred more bucks.

One thing I won't scrimp on is a comfy sleeping mat. For now my 27 ounce Thermarest LE stays. I'm already saving pennies for the 2009 introduction of a 2-1/2", 14 ounce, full length, $150 Thermarest.

Back to the original question- I'll stab at the list with a price/benefit view

BASE GEAR
Backpack - Osprey Aether 60: 59.625 oz
If peak-bagging is on the agenda from a base camp- add: Life-Link Granite Day pack: 28.25oz

Drop both and get something like my Six Moon Designs Starlight which is 31 ounces. Gossamer Gear has much lighter options.
Savings: 57 oz or more for $120-$200 or 28.25 oz for FREE by dropping the day pack


Big Agnes Zirkel 20 degree bag L in stuff sack: 36 oz
Big Agnes Air Core Insulated Mummy pad L: 24 oz
Closed Foam Shorty sit pad: 2.25 oz

There are quite a few sleeping bags or quilts around 20 ounces that are also rated at 20 degrees. Golite has a 20 ounce, $225 down quilt rated at 20. That said, if you're happy with the BA system don't change it.
Drop the sit pad.
I won't dis your BA pad- a comfy bed provides energy for the day ahead.
Savings: 18 ounces for $225-$450

Black Diamond Lighthouse tent in stuff sack: 37.25 oz
Tent poles and stakes in bag: 19.25 oz

Bivy sack, poncho, or single wall tarptent weight 10-40 ounces.
Savings: 42 ounces for ~$200 (14 oz bivy sack.)


Fuel, Cooking, Water Containers:
Small MSR Fuel Canister: 8 oz
Snowpeak Litemax stove: 2 oz
1L Ti Pot with lid: 7.625 oz
Nalgene Wide Mouth camp canteen 96oz: 2.75 oz
Aquafina water bottle 1L empty: 1.75 oz
Ti mug: 2oz
MSR Al Bowl: 3.625 oz
Plastic Spoon and Fork: 0.25oz
Small wash cloth: 2 oz
Bear Boxer Bear Canister (only when required): 29.625 oz
Kevlar Varmit Bag: 7.5 oz

Drop the bowl, fork, varmint bag, wash cloth.
Savings: 13 oz for FREE!
Consider using Esbit tabs under the Ti mug- then you can drop the fuel bottle, stove, pot and just add a very light Esbit stand (or rocks) and a few Esbit tabs.

Safety and Emergency gear:
Petzl Tikka Plus with Batteries - headlamp: 2.75 oz
Swiss Army Knife: 2.125 oz
Waterproof/windproof matches - 10 in container: 1 oz
First Aid (+ spare batteries & emergency blanket): 9.125 oz
Bug Spray: 4 oz
Lens Cloth: 0.25 oz
Hard Sunglasses case: 2oz

Go with a lighter knife, drop the sunglasses case, spare batteries, emergency blanket, and some of the first aid stuff. Bring 1/2 oz. Muskol instead of 4 oz bug spray.
Savings: 10 oz for $10

Hygiene:
Sunscreen: 2 oz
Deodorant: 1.875 oz
Toothpaste: 0.75 oz
Toothbrush: 0.5 oz
Handi-wipes: 2 oz
Floss: 0.125 oz
Lip balm: 0.5 oz
Hand sanitizer: 1.25 oz
Put a little deodorant in a baggie, dry out the handi-wipes, leave the sanitizer behind IF you are hiking alone (can't catch anything from or give it to yourself)
Savings: 4 oz for FREE

Clothes (assume 4 days - not counting clothes on me at the time)
Rain Jacket - XL: 13.875 oz
Rain/wind Pants - XL: 11.625 oz
Hiking Socks 3/4 - 1 pair/day x 3 days = 6 oz (2 oz each pair)
Underwear: 4.75 oz
Kuhl Hiking shorts: 12.75 oz
Arc'Teryx T-shirt XXL (1xday x 3 days @ 4.625 oz ea.: 13.875 oz
Down Jacket: 18.375 oz
Lightweight Long sleeve shirt: 7.375 oz
Lightweight Long johns: 6.25 oz
Wool Cap: 1.5 oz
Full finger cycling gloves: 3.75 oz
Reduce extra socks to 1 pair, drop the spare shorts, underwear, T-shirts, long johns, cycling gloves, and down jacket. Add in polypro gloves and a light fleece or down vest (8 oz) if you feel the need (remember you have a sleeping bag). If the reason for extra baselayers is stink, switch to merino wool (I'm a convert) or antimicrobial synthetics such as X-static. Also switch deodorant to "crystal stick" alum salt.
Savings: 54 oz for FREE (assuming you already have a lighter jacket and gloves)

If you just leave stuff out in the kitchen, clothing, day pack, and misc. areas you would save about 7 pounds without spending any money.
Replacing pack, sleeping bag, and shelter could save another 5 pounds but cost real money.

There is some great advice coming out here.

For discussion sake - not argument - some gear choices are personal comfort preference.

On to the gear, to add to the discussion. I tried tarps and floorless tents (BetaMid Light, Mega Light). I also tried the bivys and the one-man tents. I debate every trip whether I want to carry the Lighthouse, but in most cases something happens that makes me glad I did - like 12 hours of torrential rain where all my gear and me needed to be inside.

The one-man tents and bivy set-up fit are just too small.

I think the choice of sleeping bag and pad may change. The BA Pomer Hoit 0 degree bag won't for winter, but for summer, I think 20 degrees might be too warm and some weight saving can be gained here. A 32 degree bag is sufficient.

I recently picked up the Vapor Trail pack. I haven't used it yet. It requires a different packing order than the slimmer profile Osprey. I'm still messing around with it to see if it's a keeper. But it holds promise.

Some of the other substitutions recommended actually weigh more in my size than what I have. I think that's a lesson to everyone reviewing the this thread to look at what you have and not go by the mfg weight. Most mfg. weight are based on the M or R size. For example, the actual measured weight of the Vapor Trail is 40 oz.

Another example, someone recommended replacing the gloves with polypro gloves. They actually weigh 0.5 oz more than the cycling gloves I use (I have about 15 pairs of gloves for some reason).

And I think some may have mis-read the weights. One recommended ditching the fork for a 2 oz savings. The fork and spoon combined weigh 0.25oz (1/4 of an ounce). Alone they weigh 1/8oz each. But that's ok, the spirit of the advice is there.

A lot of the clothing suggestions are solid. I can work up a great sweat when climbing, but following the advice of rinse and dry, I can ditch some of the extra clothes. Others will remain for comfort sake. Fresh socks for example, just make me feel good. And the hard sunglass case - after breaking 3 pairs of sunglasses, it stays.

Also, for some of the suggestions I can't find anything. Like "Get a lighter Knife" At 2.125 oz the knife I have is 1-2oz lighter than any knife I can find. Suggested alternatives would be helpful.

Oh, The varmit bag is the Ursack. It keeps the mice, chipmunks, and Marmots out of stuff, but can be replaced with an ultralight stuff sack - saving 4 oz.

This is a great discussion. Thanks everyone for taking the time for the detailed response. I think I'll hit the 5-10lb goal without giving up too much comfort or convenience.

I'm actually kind of impressed at the level of detail in the responses. I honestly didn't expect that.

BTW, Kurt - we met at the Ski Hut on Baldy this past winter. You were giving a class, Andy Lewicky (www.sierradecents.com) and I were heading up for an overnight ski on Baldy. Congrats on summiting Everest.

My swiss army knife weighs 1-7/8 oz. and includes two blades, can opener, screwdriver, corkscrew, and awl. I'm sure there are models that weigh less.

An ounce isn't a big deal until multiplied 16 times. I think your easy areas of potential savings is in reducing extra clothes and the day pack.

I wouldn't carry both a bear can and the Ursack.

I like to feel clean and not stink. Between merino wool T-shirts, Champion C9 antimicrobial underwear for $6 from Target, and using a zinc based foot cream before putting my Smartwool socks on I feel clean and don't stink. I jumped in a lake with my shirt and skivvies- they were comfortably damp but not clammy within a few minutes. I'm good with one pair of light Smartwool socks for hiking and a second backup pair. The socks are comfortable to hike in if I rinse them and squeeze the extra water out- not much damper than when sweaty.

If you don't want to go with merino wool shirts try one made with Polartec Power Dry plus X-static. From reviews they say the shirt basically can't stink from the sweat-eating bacteria. I have also gone to "Crystal Body Deodorant Stick". It has absolutely no odor and is very effective at eliminating BO when combined with a merino shirt. The deodorant keeps my body from stinking, the shirt keeps itself from stinking.

What this comes down to is what you value more comfort and convenience or a light pack. I fall between the two.

One of biggest problem for ultralight enthusiasts is the bear resistant canister and in the Sierra this must be included in base weight. The current lightweight champ is the Bearikade but it takes up a big cube compared to last year's champ the Ursack Hybrid, which could be snugged down.

On a 3 day trip like a MMWT trip I would eliminate from your list the following items...

Sit pad
Tent stakes replaced with 4' 3mm reflect cord loops...there are more than enough rocks around the Sierra
96 oz. Nalgene Cantene, replaced with a bucket
Bare Box is no longer an approved canister, according to IVC last Friday
Kelvar Varmint Bag
Deodorant...everyone stinks
A pair of socks and a shirt...rinse your clothes
Long johns top and bottoms...you have a 20* F bag

A couple of questions - do you have a 96oz bucket that weighs less than 2 oz to replace the camp cantene?

Bare Boxer no longer approved? Please elaborate? Still approved here: http://www.sierrawildbear.gov/foodstorage/approvedcontainers.htm

And three comments:
I don't carry the Ursack AND a Bear canister. I only carry the bear canister when absolutely required. It doesn't have to be included in the base weight because it's not required everywhere.

You can't walk around in a 20 degree bag.

And 4' 3mm reflect cord loops weigh more than the tent stakes.

Let us know how your like it. Many lightweight packs I've tried don't have good suspension systems and have been uncomfortable for me to carry.



I think it is an excellent point. The manufacturers weight doesn't necessarily reflect the actual weight of your item. When I used to work at Adventure 16 we could weight several tents of the exact same model and find different weights on them. Weighing your actual gear on a digital scale like you did is about the only way to get a truly accurate weight reading.



Yes its a great discussion. I'm learing a few things here too.



Thanks Bullet. Yes I remember meeting you and Andy on Baldy. As I remember there was a storm forecasted as you guys were headed up. How did that trip go?

Where did I ever say you both an Ursack and a canister?

Again, I said my preference was for convenience, not weight. A bucket allow you to pull water from a creek in multi-gallons...saving trips to the pond, stream or spring. It is well worth the extra couple of ounces. BTW, are you filtering water into those Cantene and boiling it for food?

I pulled a permit at IVC 7/18 was told and there was a flyer showing pictures of what was currently acceptable. This canister was shown to be non-acceptable. It seems some mama bear has moved on from Bear Vaults and Ursacks to Bare Boxes. If you have a question about this, call the IVC or INF.

In the Sierra, a canister is required at most trailheads. Therefore, it makes sense to include it as base gear when making an assessment.

No, You can't walk around in 20* F bag but you already have down jacket 3 tops and a pair of rain pants. My base here is 2-Boxer Briefs, Ex Officio Air Strip Shirt, MH Convertibles, DriClime Windshirt and Hyperion Jacket and PreCip Rain Gear. When I wash my shirt at end of the day I put the windshirt. There is no right or wrong here only what works for you. I take a lot less clothing than most and the only hanging from my 60L pack on the way up is my tent...maybe.

Maybe the cord weighs more but it easier to use above the tree line in places like Trail Camp...that's where you are heading, isn't it?

One more weight saver not yet mentioned - cut the strings off your tea bags - or if you leave them on, you can eliminate the dental floss from your pack
Seriously, take a look at your boots/shoes - I'm wearing a montrail boot that is very light and is built on a running shoe platform - love them - I've read (more than a few times) that a pound off your feet is equal to 6 pounds off your pack weight
Dave

Dave,

That's ok if you are a trail hiker. If you spend a lot of time on scree slopes and talus these types will not hold up to the abuse...different horses for different courses.

I do agree with lighter footwear choices. I reduced my boot weight by over 1.5 pounds the last go around. Unfortunately, one particular component of the boot is substandard and will have to be replace after 2 months of average use.

Very true that the lighter boot will have it's draw-backs and may not hold up to the extreme abuse - a couple of points - in scree a pair of light gaters help a lot and also the lighter boots tend to be about half the cost so can be replaced more often - I have a pair of gortex Scarpa that were about $160 - just found another pair of my montrails on sale for $70
True that the Scarpa are a much more rugged boot, and I use them for a different type of trip -
Like backpacks, sleeping bags and tents and any other gear, I guess there is no magic (fits all) bullet
Dave

no



Deadman stakes with rocks if soil is impenetrable. Save weight, same effect. And no, I didn't say I was heading to trail camp. In the introduction I stated this was my gear list for a 4 day/3 Night trip with Rain or afternoon thundershower in the forecast. No destination was mentioned.



Good point. I found a good compromise with the boots I have. Light, yet rugged. I tried Talus hopping in running shoes once. Man were my feet sore. The lightweight lugged sole boot is a good compromise - not heavy like a full leather trudging boot, but still rigid and rugged enough to make talus walking easier.



I'm debating this right now. I did some trial packing. The pack body is wider both side-to-side and front-to-back, but not as tall as the the Osprey. For example, a fully stuffed sleeping bag sits nicely longitudinally in the Opsrey. In the Vapor Trail, there's a lot of room on either side. This means changing how I pack and experimenting with different load configurations to get it right.

It also means the load seems to sit further from my back causing it to feel saggy as compared to the lower profile fit of the the Osprey under load (19-22lbs). I'm really undecided. I know for winter trips, the Osprey Exposure 66 will get the call. But as a replacement for the Osprey Aether 60 on Summer outings, the Vapor Trail is still a question mark. I'm thinking the 19oz difference may not be worth the sacrifice in comfort. But, I'll play around with load configurations first before I decide that.



Kurt - the trip up Baldy was good. The storm didn't amount to much more than a lot of wind, cold temps, and some high clouds. We had a spectacular sunset ski off of West Baldy summit. Then on day 2, explored the West ridge a bit before returning to the summit and a continuous ski all the way to truck. Conditions were hard-pack to glaze ice, but sharp edges made it a lot of fun - ah, and a little exciting in a few spots.

Andy's blog entry:
http://www.sierradescents.com/blog/2008/02/03/sunset-cruise-mesmerizing.html

Bullet, you mentioned how your sleeping bag fit in the pack. One thing I started doing some time ago, was getting rid of stuff sacks. I find that the sleeping bag fits much better in the pack, and I find that when I'm going ultralight, that space is not an issue at all, and I have more options in that direction.

My most common pack is a Golite Race, which I don't think is made anymore. 2700 CI, with a 400 CI top section, which I've removed, as I don't need the space. 1#, 8oz. Really comfortable pack with less than 20#.

When I look at websites/catalogs for appropriate packs, I find that virtually none of the "backpacks" are appropriate....they are all too heavy, or too large. I often find myself looking at "daypacks".

Under that heading, I find the GoLite Jam2, 22 oz, 3100 CI, $100---which seems about right.

I agree with the concept that several have mentioned about footwear, that if one is carrying a lot less (<20#), and are on a good trail, lightweight shoe options also come into play.

By the way, for a summit pack, here is a new option:
summit pack

Another option to consider are some of the approach shoes made for rock climbers. I've been using a pair of 5.10 Camp Four shoes. They say they're actually sturdy enough to accept a light strap on crampon although I've never tried that. They have plenty of support though, have plenty of support with an overnight pack, and have so far held up very nicely after almost a year of use.



Osprey makes a great product. I just got an Aether 85 this past winter an loaded it up with about 70 pounds for a 5 day in March. It ranks as the nicest pack I've carried with such a big load in it. I'd use it for McKinley or other big trips when I have to carry big loads.

You should really check out the Wild Things Andinista. It has been around a long time and has a great reputation.



Awesome! It sounds like that was a great trip. Way to go. It's rare to ski all the way to the car on Baldy but I did it once last winter as well.

Good call on the 5.10's Kurt! I wear the same shoe with close to 200 miles on them. I didnt know they say that they are crampon compatible, let me know if you ever get to try that out!